107: Unseen Work, Unrealized Power: The Boundaries You Never Knew You Needed

Kat welcomes Ayla, a psychotherapist and family coach who specializes in boundaries, burnout, over-functioning, and generational trauma. They discuss why high-achieving women and moms often feel drained as they handle logistics, emotions, and goals. Ayla explains over-functioning as doing for others what they can do themselves, such as taking on extra chores, speaking for others, or jumping into conflicts. She notes that supportive partnerships can still feel unbalanced due to invisible labor and cultural expectations. Using Bowen family systems theory, she describes how stress creates cycles of over- and under-functioning, sharing an example involving a “Fair Play” household task card game that caused resentment. Ayla emphasizes that boundaries are non-punitive limits protecting relationships and reducing resentment, highlighting the importance of clear communication, natural consequences, creative compromises, and modeling boundaries for children.

Connect with Ayla:
🌎 www.aylaflemingllc.com

00:00 Meet Ayla and Disclaimer

00:44 Podcast Welcome and Host Intro

01:57 Why Moms Overfunction

02:42 What Overfunctioning Looks Like

04:36 Default Parent and Mental Load

08:57 Resentment and Fair Division

11:07 Fair Play Cards Story

13:22 Boundaries Defined

17:40 Self-Care Boundaries for Moms

23:06 Generational Patterns and Trauma

25:04 Communication vs Trauma Response

28:34 Workout Time Boundaries in Real Life

34:11 Modeling Boundaries for Kids

36:33 When Boundaries Get Pushback

37:19 Closing and Takeaways

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Transcript

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Today's guest is Ayla, a psychotherapist and family coach dedicated to helping individuals, couples, and families create healthy boundaries that reduce burnout and over-functioning. With deep expertise in generational trauma, Ayla offers trauma processing, practical boundary skills, and guidance for navigating relationships, whether that means staying safely or choosing to end them. Her compassionate approach supports clients through meaningful change and healing. Before we begin, please remember, the information shared in this episode is intended for informational and educational purposes only. It is not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you are seeking mental health support, please consult a qualified professional Welcome to MilesFromHerView, the podcast powered by KatFit Strength, where busy women like you find practical solutions to fuel your fitness journey with authenticity and resilience. I'm Kat, your host, a mom of two active boys, a business owner, and an ultramarathon runner, and a strength trainer in her 40s. With nearly two decades of experience, I'm here to help you cut through the noise of fads, hacks, and quick fixes. This is a space where we celebrate womanhood and motherhood, all while building strength and resilience and reconnecting with you from a place of self-compassion and worthiness. Whether you're lacing up your running shoes to go out for a run, driving your kids to practice, or squeezing in a moment for yourself, I'm right here in the trenches with you. Let's dive in welcome back to MilesFromHerView. I am Kat, your host, and today I am here with Ayla. How are you? Hi, Kat. I'm good. So happy to be here with you. I'm excited about this topic. I am, like, when I was writing out the questions and everything, I'm like,"Oh, this is gonna be so good," not only for my listeners, for my clients, but I think everyone's gonna get something out of it. We're gonna be talking about focusing on women and moms those who tend to have those high-achieving tendencies that also are very deeply committed to their families, but get... We're tired, and we're managing all the things. I'm speaking for myself. I'm the high achiever. I manage all the things, but, we're managing the logistics, the emotions, the planning, and our own goals on top of all of that. And half the time it's"Where do I fit myself in?" You're feeling that guilt of being pulled in all the directions. So today we're really unpacking, why that happens, what over-functioning actually is, and how boundaries can shift the dynamic of the home. And it's a lot to cover there, and you have a wealth of experience Let's start with what does over-functioning in relationships look like? Yeah. I was thinking about... I think this is a great question to start with. The best definition I could come out with is it means doing things for people that they're capable of doing for themselves. So that could mean many different things. It could be speaking for others, if they're capable of speaking for themselves, kids, partner getting in the middle of conflict if we, we feel that we're helping. It could be giving unsolicited advice or kind of planning what we think is best for someone. Doing chores, if things aren't really fair in the home, so we're taking extra chores and doing them, not just every once in a while, but long-term. So all of those things can be over-functioning that can result in us feeling even more burnt out. I love that definition. And as you were talking, I was thinking about all the times that I go to do things that my kids are capable... And for me, I find it's the urge of I've asked them so many times, and they still haven't done it. Or I don't wanna ask them because I know the constant follow-up, and that leads to the mental exhaustion and, physically following up with it. Yeah. But then I also ask myself,"Is this gonna help me or hurt me, or help them or hurt them if I constantly jump in?" And it's... It can be exhausting in that respect. It can be, and I think you made a really good point. Is it gonna help them or hurt them? And sometimes we don't know, but I use the word natural consequences. So is there a natural consequence that is natural, that's age appropriate, that we're getting in the way of? And if we are, is it actually hurting them in a way? That's, it's really good. So over-functioning looking into the partnership and the partner appears to be supportive, but there's still that exhaustion where there's the default parent in that landscape even though the partner can you talk to that? Yeah. I was thinking about this today actually in preparing. So when, if you're a mom, let's say, and you are, maybe you have to go to a fertility doctor. So there's researching fertility doctors, making appointments. Maybe they tell you to take a supplement, then you have to research the supplement. So you can have a very supportive partner, but I think that oftentimes there are things that we're taking care of that, the partner might not even be aware of, or it's hard to understand if, and then we could even say,"Oh I'm going to the doctor, and so maybe this is my responsibility." And, if it's, maybe it's breastfeeding, and so you might say I'm off of work right now, so I'm going to do all the night feedings." But then it starts to spiral into I'm doing all the research on sleep training, and now I'm washing all the bottles, and now I'm dealing with, all of these different stresses. And so I think there's a lot of different reasons why we, we see that we're super mom because we're able to carry a baby and do all these things and have all these skills. Some of them come naturally, and some of them are learned. But I think we can naturally just take on a lot of responsibilities, and it can spiral very quickly into doing things when maybe our partner isn't even aware- culturally too yeah. Is that why the division of labor can feel a little bit emotionally charged? I- is that that- Oh spiral effect or Yeah. That's- y- yes. I think so. Yeah, so if you start to talk to your partner they're going through different changes and shifts as well. And so in a lot of ways we might not be able to understand from their perspective. So culturally, traditionally, the man might be like I'm still working. I really need to keep this job. Nothing can go wrong. I need to be able to get my sleep," and then it can change into"My partner is not understanding my perspective. They're getting really frustrated. Everyone's exhausted but they're not understanding me." And then, maybe one of the partners starts to say I think we really need to go to therapy," so then you're researching therapy and you're researching therapeutic techniques. And I think that there's just so much work going on, especially with trying to manage a household. Those things can be pressures. We can even have pressures from our culture or our family that says the parents should do things in a certain way or there should be a certain division of labor. All of these things can just create stress that makes it more and more difficult to know who should be doing what and how to keep things fair. That makes sense,'cause I hear sometimes people throw around blue jobs, pink jobs, in the household. But sometimes I feel like that can build up resentment towards tasks and about feeling seen or unseen or unsupported. You mentioned all the research for fertility doctor or researching about then if there is that strife and feeling that friction because one is carrying a, more of a load then researching couples counselors. It's like that extra work. And, is it a little bit more of being unseen or unsupported in that? In those situations, I know for me, again, being a high achiever, you're gonna take on more. And so how do you kinda shift out of that so that you're not feeling like you're constantly burnt out or the only one that cares? Let's take a little bit of that couples counseling, going in feeling like I'm the one doing all the work here," and maybe from the other partner's point of view, they're like no, I help out. I do these things," but the unseen load isn't there. Does that make sense? A kinda big general question there. Yeah. Yeah, I think what probably goes out the window, especially for new moms, is being able to... I think first we're shell-shocked. We're like-"What just happened? I have no clue. I just need to survive. I'm on, two hours of sleep." And so everyone's probably at their wit's end, and we've never seen each other like this either. This is probably our worst moments. And then throwing into that what expectations that we had that were not met by our partner, that were not bet- met by life in general of,"I thought parenthood would be like this, and it's not. I thought living, even living together would be like this, and it's not." And so then, we forget to or we don't have the energy to talk about compromise. If we're, both of us feel exhausted and both of us feel resentful, it would be great if there could be a conversation of,"Hey, I know that you've been doing, X, Y, Z, and I know that you've seemed a little irritated. What can we do? Let's think about how we'll both feel making it so that neither one of us is resentful. What does that look like? Is it totally not possible? Okay, if it's not possible, do we need to bring in more support?" I think what oftentimes happens in couples is we can get into this, and I specialize in Bowen family systems theory, so I look at how anxiety moves through systems. So we tend to, in stressful situations, overfunction and underfunction. So one person tends to do a lot, and then the other tends to back off, or maybe the person that's doing a lot is starting to get irritated, so the other person is"I'm just gonna maintain my sanity and just kinda let them spiral'cause I think that's the best thing I can do in this situation." But that's probably the worst thing they could do. Yeah. We don't want them to turn into an overfunctioner as well, but we want them both to come together and say,"How can we manage this anxiety better?" Which usually is about having a conversation to think about how we can get this to a place where we're not feeling resentful. I'll share an anecdote about- when my child was a baby. Have you heard of the Fair Play card game? A book. No. Okay. No. So there's a book, I forget the title exactly. I can give it to you, but she has an associated card game where it divvies up, like, all the tasks in the house, and then there's cards that you can write something on for your particular household. So my partner and I, we played the game. It was not a game at that point. We were both very irritated. Yeah. And, he was honest, and he said,"I really, I can't take half the cards. I don't even know if I can take 25% of the cards." And I said to myself he can't handle it, so I'll just take all the cards." And, I think we were both so depleted, and I was like,"Who knows? Maybe this will work." Needless to say, it did not work. And so the resentment just slowly built. And I think like you said before, if you're somebody who tends to wanna be Superwoman, and you're used to doing everything, doing it all, high achieving, and then suddenly it's not possible because the energy is finite you learn these lessons. That resonates with me because I feel like I'm Superwoman. Even now I have to be like whoa, back off," but the one thing I wanna highlight what you said was in a partnership, especially in those early years with your first child, you've never seen your partner in that light as far as being so sleep-deprived, jumping into a new role. And then the same thing for yourself this, it's completely uncharted territory for you both. And, in speaking,'cause we do have international listeners, but speaking about United States, there already isn't good support systems for new parents or new parents again. And so typically the dad is the one who's going right back to work where the mom is home, whether that be six to eight weeks or hopefully longer, but not always the case. Sometimes- Yeah it's shorter. And it's just, you just are like here's the baby. Just function." And it's really hard that card game sounds kinda cool, and even just that analogy of seeing the breakdown of here's a card. I don't know if I can handle all or not. But this is a great segue going into boundaries. This is something that I know growing up, boundaries were not modeled at all boundaries were put as being selfish egocentric, like, how dare you, or alienating. But- I would love to hear what is a boundary and what is it not, and why... And then I'm gonna compound this question, but, like, why would it be important and how to establish them? I know people ha- a lot of times, like in social media, people are like,"I'm gonna cut them off because they didn't respect my boundary." The good thing that I teach clients about boundaries is that you determine what your boundary is, one, and a lot of us don't know what our boundaries are. We just have a lot of anger and irritability, and we try- we're trying to do it all, so we shove it down. So that is one good thing. We can determine what our boundaries are. No boundaries are, like, wrong or too much, because all a boundary is it's the limit for me to have a healthy relationship with someone where I don't feel resentful. And then what I'm going to do about it if my need is not being met. A boundary is not a punishment to anyone else. It's nothing punitive. And if it's coming off that way, then it's not exactly a boundary, and we're maybe punishing someone. Or we're not accepting the situation, or we're not really in touch with our boundaries. What you said that resonated with me about not learning about boundaries growing up, same with my family. Boundaries were... The idea was that you were coupled with somebody, and you always had to fill each other's gaps. And that's tough, because if I don't have anything left and I'm trying to fill someone else's gap, then who fills my gap? Also, if both of you are depleted, you're not gonna be able to have any creative solutions that come in. Maybe I say to my partner,"I really can't handle anymore. Let's talk about, a solution that maybe a compromise neither one of us like, but it's gonna result in the least amount of resentment." In my family, th- those conversations didn't really happen, so there was a ton of resentment. So that was part of the reason why I went into this work as a therapist. Boundaries dictate how you'll handle it when your needs aren't being honored. The card game would be an example. I just said,"I'll do more." But if I had said,"I think that we need to come up with a compromise,""Let's talk about it. Maybe we think of a creative solution, which is to not check the mail for a month." Hey, maybe that needs to happen. Nobody wants the mail card nobody cares about the mail, except for those Amazon packages. I know. But yeah, nobody cares about those stupid mailers. Maybe, the dog waits, I don't know, three weeks to get a bath instead of getting a weekly bath. But I think having that conversation versus just stewing in resentment is really important. Sometimes people aren't going to respect the boundary, and if that's the case, then it dictates how you're going to handle it. So maybe unsolicited advice is a big one. Unsolicited advice can drive me nuts. But some people can't help themselves. They wanna give you advice for whatever reason. They think they know best. They think they can help you. They struggle with seeing you suffer. And so if they continue to keep giving you advice and you've asked them,"Hey, really I'd prefer that you don't," then maybe we cut the phone call short. It doesn't mean that you're cutting them out of your life necessarily, but it just means"Hey, I gotta go," they can't help themselves, so I need to do what I need to do to maintain the relationship and, take control of what I can, which is my behavior. One of the things when you were talking that came up, especially about boundaries and figuring out that creative solution where it can be a source of contention is, and of course it just flew out of my brain. One second. I will edit that out. It's a lot of information. I feel like it was, like, right there, and I was, like, so tuned into what you were saying. I was like,"Don't lose it. Don't lose it." I'm like,"But this is really good." Yeah, so with boundaries, one of the things I found is I was playing the superwoman attitude with my own workout and training, and I could take on the kids plus train myself. It wasn't that I don't need to ask for help because I'm super strong, but I have more of a flexible job and when my kids were little, they weren't in grade school, so there's a lot of unstructured time. They need me more. There was more days off. So I would be like,"I can handle it all." My husband worked at more of a traditional 9:00 to 5:00 or whatnot so it's like he, his time was more carved out. But what I was finding was I wasn't establishing the boundary of what was really important to me, that I needed to get a workout in, not always around the kids. And I would started getting resentful towards him,'cause he would finish work, and even though the plan was he was gonna get a workout in, he would go off to work out, and I was fine with cooking dinner. But I found myself getting really resentful because I'm like,"Why does he get to go have a workout without the kids? And now I'm here, I've worked out with the kids, I've worked all day, I've gotten them to and from school, entertained them. I'm cooking dinner." It just, the laundry list would build up. And until I stopped and had a conversation with him, he's"I never knew you wanted ti-" He's"You just handled it. I didn't know, of course." He's"Let's work out a plan." And for me, I was kinda like,"But why would I have to say that? Couldn't you see?"'Cause it was like that unseen. It's obvious. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where, I find it it can be tough. And then also, I know overcoming that internal story of it's selfish to take time for yourself, whether it be training or even a hobby or socializing. But to your earlier point is when you're so depleted who's gonna pour into you? And those activities can pour into you so you're not feeling like,"All I'm doing is working and momming. Where is me?" Oh my God, yes. And, depression, postpartum depression and anxiety and mom rage, all the things there's a reason, right? It's not just chemical, but there's often a reason that we're not getting what we need. And whatever reason it is, if we have these stories from childhood that we just need to wait until it's our turn, or good girls, don't ask for too much, or strong women do it all and are the, the rock of the family, I think that these stories often play, and we don't even realize that they're playing. Then if we feel guilty about it, speaking up to begin with, and then when we finally do speak up, we're like,"You didn't even notice." And then it's kinda like our partner's"Whoa. You're acting crazy. You're too much. You need to calm down." And then it just escalates things further, and then we just start to internalize the shame again, which we felt to begin with, which is oh, he was right. I was too much." I think it's just could be, a cycle. So oftentimes getting specialized therapy on boundaries this is the reason why this is my specialty, because- there are so many stories that come into our relationships, our understanding ourself, our sense of self and how we represent ourselves in the world and in our relationships. And if we can break them down, if we can see the generational patterns, if we can see the impact of society and our childhood, it can make all the difference, We can choose how we wanna show up and how we support ourselves, and how we show up in our relationships. It was one of those things where, I'm gonna obviously speak for myself, but as I kinda entered into motherhood, in that I always regarded myself as a strong sense of knowing myself and being, like, very firm in knowing who I am. But then motherhood has this great way of humbling you, and I was like,"I know nothing." It wasn't until my second child, I had postpartum PTSD, and again, a little disclaimer, you don't have to have postpartum depression or anxiety or postpartum PTSD to have these realizations. But working with a therapist, going through postpartum PTSD, I really started to understand some of this, these stories that maybe had been in my subconscious or wherever up there, that they were in a slow whisper, I will say, and they weren't loud. And then I started to listen to them, and that was at the part where I was like,"I need to change my story, and if I do that, I'm gonna change my life." It impacted me in in a very positive way. Not overnight. It takes time and time and slow progress doesn't mean bad progress. It can mean really good progress. And so it was interesting to hear the stories and For me, when I was taught be strong, be firm be a good wife, be the good mom, be successful at what you do, achieve that was ingrained in me that it was like no, help isn't a weakness. Admitting you need more support in an area is actually strong. It doesn't mean you can't handle it. It doesn't mean you're not worth it or you're not doing well. It just means you're human, and you have people around that can help support you. I love that.. I know generationally sometimes I'll... pretty much with all of my clients, we'll talk about generationally if you had this told to you that you have to be strong and you can't ask for help, where did that come from? Because odds are it could be in your parents, but it could be in generations prior. There could have been a war, and the way that they coped was to do everything themselves. I think sometimes talking about family systems theory talks about how anxiety moves through systems and how we deal with stress. And if we know that maybe this is something left over from past generations, it almost makes it less personal, so it's easier to change now, and it doesn't feel so this is about me right here in the here and now. Maybe it was a coping skill that your family adopted. Maybe there was a death or there was a very severe medical illness and, or a very traumatic birth. And, stress does a lot to family functioning. Where did the stories actually come from? Yeah. Two books came to mind when you were talking. I don't know if you've read them, but The Body Keeps Score is one that talks about just not only in our own body but it, to your point, it can be passed down through generation. And then this isn't a book, but it was a study that showed that with moms, the more stressed out they are, the babies can also be stressed and feel distressed and that can come out after birth. And it was a really interesting study. Doesn't mean if you are under stressed times or anything like that, that your child is, your child's gonna be fine. It's just it was a really interesting story how the stress can be passed down, to your point. And another good book talking about burnout and systems is the book Burnout. Have you read that book? No, I don't... I think I might have started it, but no. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the authors, but they are written by two sisters. But it's a good segue into the burnout because burnout talks about how some of the generational and how it's passed down and how it shapes your story. It is one of those things how do we know burnout is a communication issue versus a deeper trauma response? Digging deeper to that. Is it how I maybe saw partnership modeled from my parents or past, or just past relationship experience where it's coming up in me, and it is it communication versus a deeper trauma response? Is there a way that someone listening to this, again, we're here for informative purposes, not diagnosing or treating, but they can articulate it's communication versus a deeper trauma response. A lot of clients come to me, and they're at their wit's end. They might have a adult child who's addicted or a parent or a partner, or it may be, like, a toxic relationship, or they're worried it's a toxic relationship. And they're like,"Is it me? Is it that I'm not communicating it properly? Is it that this is my trauma showing up, or is it that this is just a bad match, or is it my partner?" And I think that asking those questions and seeing a specialized therapist can help because, there's so much... There's only so much that the therapist can do in the room, which is to coach you on how to set boundaries and see what happens, and coach you, help you learn to regulate your nervous system so that you're not adding more stress into the system, and see what happens. And I think that, whether other people figure out if they're, the reasons why they're acting like they are because of childhood trauma right? They may or may not. Your parents may or may not get help or whatever. But when one person in a sys- again, family systems, when one person changes, the others in the system have no option but to change because you're acting differently. So even, so for example, short and sweet, you set a boundary. You avoid over-explaining. You do everything right,'cause you've probably had the conversation before, and it fell on deaf ears. And so you're like,"I cannot come to visit you Sunday, Mom, but I will come monthly." If you give too much information, she will try to convince you of otherwise, say you're wrong say you're bad, say you're mean. But if you are short and sweet and then you just repeat yourself, and she's"You're mean," and you're like that may be true but, this is what I have to do," you just see what happens. That's like a reasonable request, right? You may or may not be able to come as much as they want. It may or may not be, but that's what you have to do to avoid feeling resentful. So that's what the boundary has to be because that's your bandwidth, and that's the reality. Is it because of childhood trauma? Maybe. But are you gonna be able to get through that childhood trauma if you're constantly subjecting yourself to total depletion? No. You're gonna just remain stuck. So seeing how other people respond, like it may take them a little bit to adjust, but you can see like normally people kinda give up and they respect your boundary because they realize that, you're not trying to argue with them. You're just trying to keep the relationship healthy by having a limit. Compromise is okay, and you don't need to sacrifice your wellbeing to have a healthy relationship. And you probably should have had the boundary to begin with if somebody's no, don't do that." That makes sense. I talk to my clients about the boundaries with their workouts, how it can be almost hard when I... for me, I tell them, I'm like,"Schedule the time." Make sure it aligns with the household, i'm not telling clients just don't pick up your kids," it's look at your schedule as a whole, and it's okay for you, and absolutely within the parameters of a re- relationship and yourself, to have that boundary and be like,"This is my workout time." Once you have that, you're gonna allow yourself, and it's, it can be sometimes met with what if something else comes up?" And it's life is always gonna happen. Something will always come up. It's, that's where is this- an emergency, not maybe medically or something like that, but is it maybe work-related to where you have to do it right then and there? Or is it a partner maybe not respecting, or even a child not respecting. Again, within reason. I'm not saying push your toddler away that doesn't understand. What is it? And then go from there. If it is something that the in- life thing that happens comes up, you can always adapt your workout. Maybe you set out for a 45-minute, but, young kids, or even my kids will have a question on their homework and it slows me down, and I have to tell myself, because I'll start panicking"You had the time set up." And I'm in the business. I tell my clients, I'm like,"It happens for me." My mind is like,"Oh, you had the time set up. Now you're gonna be late. Now you have to cut it short. You should've planned better." And it's"Stop. No, answer the question. You're still going to be able to address yourself, fulfill your needs there, but we need to just be present here and adapt." It can be hard,'cause our mind can be again, going with that being a high achiever, it's like,"I should have it all handled. I should've planned better." It's so hard, too. Yeah, because sometimes The plan doesn't get thrown off because of something you did, but it's something external, and I think yeah, I totally get what you were saying the panic. Oh my God, it was supposed to go a certain way." Like you said, thinking about what are emergencies, and then what do you have control over versus what you don't. And sometimes when we over-function, we could, meet others' needs, and our needs kinda go by the wayside. Sometimes it's something that is really important and you wanna address it right away or it's quick, and other times it might be,"Mom can't help you right now, and i'm gonna help you at 5:00," and repeating yourself a few times."Write down that question. I'm gonna help you at 5:00." And actually helping that setting the boundary for them helps them feel the natural consequence of discomfort having to write it down-'cause that's annoying. They want their question answered right now. And so sometimes that's gonna be the case, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes, it's a welcome interruption maybe, because you're having not the greatest workout, and then you'll get back into it, and it'll be better after that. But having the license to ask yourself those questions, and you're not too much for having needs or for getting irritated or for not thinking it's a good idea to throw out all your boundaries. I love that. One thing when you were talking there it reminded me of one of the things, obviously we had to reassess a boundary and it, in the framework of I am by nature the default parent, and I feel like there's always gonna be a default parent no matter how boundaried or how the division of labor is set up. It's just the nature of the beast, if you will, of parenthood. There's always gonna be one default. And for me sometimes it's like I'm bounded, I'm going to my workout, and again, the kids, they know when you're gonna pay attention to yourself. They just have this great knack. Or I could be on a mission and going to something and I'm going to be indisposed. One of the things that I had to reassess with my husband is like when I say I am, like going to do this, even though I'm in common space and I'm on the way, if you can intercept the children. Or the other thing that has happened that would just perturb me and I knew my husband was not doing this maliciously, but he would be in the common space, I would be doing a workout, and one of the kids would come in and talk to me and be like,"Can I have a snack?" And I'm like,"Where's your dad?" I, this is my time. It's that reassessment and just being like,"Hey, what happened?" I get it. People need to use, the bathroom or they might step out and they you know, and it's, your time can be interrupted, but it's, for me I found that I was like I have to follow up and be like,"Hey, just so you know," but"If you could step it up here, it could just help calm me a little bit. Not that you have to step on eggshells, but it's like this helps me just get my head in so I'm not frazzled because I'm always gonna stop and help the kids or I'm gonna pause my workout so I can go help." So to me, I'm like that's a reassessment of boundaries. It's"Hey, you're doing awesome, but I need a little bit more support here." I love that, and normalizing having these conversations versus it being this like very stressful"Oh my God, what is the outcome going to be?" And brings everyone's stress levels up. I think it's like there's a lot going on in the household. There's a lot of communication that's necessary. If you're somebody who doesn't like communication, it's probably going to be very difficult to run a healthy household where things are fair because things are constantly changing and need to be tweaked, and with the kid growing up, every single stage, every day seems different sometimes, so different plans are needed. Parenthood does not get easier. Some things get easier, and some things get harder and it's... I know that the one thing is talking about boundaries and talking about just I don't know if it's partner check-ins, but, like, where are you at? Are you getting your needs met? Or even just going into, March is coming up soon at the time we're recording this. And I know for my husband and I, we've had to learn a little bit by default because our lives have gotten really busy between two-career household, and now as the kids grow, they have their own activities, and nobody's driving yet. Kind of good and stressful where I'm like-"Can someone drive please?" We've had to be conscientious of taking that pause that it's okay, we're going into a really busy time. What do you need for not just career but yourself? What do you need in this time? What do I need in this time? And you said this earlier, and I thought this was so great that it's not just filling in the other person and just knowing, but boundaries also sometimes, to your point, about the mail doesn't get checked. And so we have that clear understanding of we're gonna ignore this, and it's not gonna fall on anyone's shoulders. Or I don't like dirty dishes in the sink overnight, but there are times where I'm like, you know what? This is not a today problem, and I fully accept this is gonna be tomorrow's problem, or we're gonna get through this. And I don't feel that guilt of ugh, I should be getting this done, and I'm super tired and I just wanna relax. And it's helped me and both my husband just find that common ground, and I've seen it start to trickle down with my kids where they'll ask"I'm really tired tonight. I know this needs to be picked up. Can I just leave it here?" Sure. Totally fine. I think this is me helping them establish boundaries and communicate. You can correct me if I'm wrong, yeah. I think everything can be modeled. Perfectionism can be modeled. Boundaries can be modeled. And that's a tough part, maybe, and a beautiful part about having kids. We can do our own work, and it will really change generational patterns, and it will really help them. Right? Because they're getting information from society, from the greater family at large, from the culture, and so these healthy habits I definitely think, Yeah. That's awesome that they notice. I guess they say kids notice everything. They really do. It's it's great and also whoo. Yeah. And it's... Yeah. It's, But yet, one of the things and just that we didn't really cover we've talked a lot about boundaries and healthy boundaries and reassessing boundaries and but the other side is, what are signs that maybe boundaries will or will not be respected? I think pushback is normal, right? Nobody likes change. It's nerve-wracking. So if we set a boundary we haven't set before, and we actually hold it, it's... Pushback is normal. I think using healthy distance can be helpful. Like I said, getting off the phone, and I know some people might be like,"But I've told them a million times, and they're ignoring me." Sometimes you can have a different outcome if you remove access a little bit. I know I've, maybe I've told them, maybe I haven't, I've taken break from a relationship sometimes throughout my life, and I set, for whatever reason, maybe I knew I was being irrationally angry at them, or I was just like,"I just need to take some time for me. I don't even know what my boundaries are anymore because I feel like they've been ignored for so long," or,"I can't trust my judgment anymore," or,"I'm feeling always anxious and nervous around this person, so I need to take some space." So it's not a punishment. You don't even necessarily have to tell them if you think it's gonna cause a fight. They might be wondering where you're going. They might ask you, I wouldn't lie to them, but, you were resetting. You needed some time for your mental health, whatever you wanna say. You can try techniques like there's this book by I think his name is Dr. Manuel Smith. It's from the'80s. It's called When I Feel Guilty When I Say No, and I love that book. It's about assertiveness, and he says to use the broken record technique. What we talked about earlier, just restating it, not like a robot, just"Be that as it may, I can only do XYZ," or,"You might be right. I might be being a jerk,"'cause who knows? To some people, you're being a jerk."But I still need to do XYZ." And consistency can be helpful, not overexplaining the reasons, because then it's like we get stuck in somebody arguing with us about the boundary. And just see what happens. Consistency and see what happens. And, maybe that person will say,"I don't like you anymore. You've changed." And ultimately, not all relationships will stay. Many relationships will change. Many relationships will have seasons where we go in and out of being close. But if our relationship is built on inauthenticity, they could drain us and they could exhaust us. I've just seen it a lot in my career in different jobs, just how draining it can be to ignore our needs. I think we will give the most to people when we have boundaries. I love that. One thing I know we haven't talked on and I think it's very important is what I've heard from clients, and then this is more of a partnership w- and even they've even said about friendships or whatnot, is when they establish that boundary and that person is no longer in their life, how much energy they feel restored to them, and calmness. You said it earlier about the nervous system, it is something that isn't talked about enough in my opinion. And it's something that I know for myself that I knew when I was a college athlete and in the beginning parts of of my career as a college track and field coach, then moved into what I'm doing now. I knew all that, but I didn't r- understand the full impact of how the nervous system truly impacts the entire body, not only from a training standpoint, but from a fully functional standpoint for mental clarity, physical clarity. But I find for myself with building muscle and seeing a body composition change, when that nervous system is calmer, when it can go from the sympathetic to parasympathetic, when the person is able to feel that rest, that fulfillment. And it's not that we're supposed to be that complete rest enlightenment type situation. But has the ability. They have the control. They can be more of them, that I find i- it's remarkable to see, and I'm sure that with your patients when they establish that boundary, when they either need to put that relationship on hold, that their... It's not their personality change, but their authenticity is returned to them, that power, like you said. It's just, it's incredible. I think it's in the media people say should you cut them off? Shouldn't you? And- It becomes so emotionally charged. I- it just feels like more anxiety to me, and I feel like the question the better question is what happens when you set some boundaries? What happens when you regulate your nervous system? What happens when you take a little bit of distance? That would I know before we talked about what people can do that are listening to this episode, what they can take away from this. What if you just step back? Take a week to yourself to relax if you're stressed out with a relationship or, if it's work, take a vacation. And things always seem easier to figure out when we take some time. And if it's a really deeply entrenched stressful family relationship, maybe take a break from that family relationship and see how you feel in a week, in a month. Or that family member that it's just been contentious for so long, and it's not like you're testing cutting them off necessarily, but it's testing- to see how to get your nervous system regulated again so you can determine what you wanna say next. Because we've been arguing for years and years, You're probably not gonna be able to figure it out when you're on high alert. And whatever you decide, you're gonna be wondering could I have done more? Was that the right decision? If you cut off from a relationship when it's like an explosion. I love that. That is so useful for so many. Again, as we've already stated so often just culturally and generationally we were raised that it's like boundaries are selfish and you shouldn't cut people off. And especially, I like that you've talked a lot about family because that is something that it's don't cut out family, don't pause family. But, I think that is something that we need to listen to ourselves. We owe it to ourselves, and no one is gonna pour into us when we're empty, or no one is going to be there except ourselves. And then, when you take that step back, you can really start to see who's there, who fills you up and how to fill yourself up. And this has been so incredible. I know I got a lot out of it, and I definitely... I'm like, I never heard about that book. What was it? I Feel Guilty When I Say No? Yes. I have a hard time saying no. I'm like,"Sure, I can do that," and then,"Nah." And then- Yeah I wind up being like,"Oh, I took on too much." Yeah. It's really good. Yeah. This was awesome, and I know we'll definitely have you back. And for all those listening out there, if you have questions, you can definitely message the podcast. We'll have Ayla's information in- in the show notes for you to reach out to her. And if you wanted to share where people can find you here, like I said, it'll be in the show notes as well. Yes. I'm on Instagram at AylaTheTherapist. There's my website, and you could email me or my phone receives calls or text messages if you're interested in therapy. And I see clients in New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania virtually. Awesome. This has been so great. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. Thank you for tuning in to MilesFromHerView, powered by KatFit Strength. If this podcast inspires you, don't keep it for yourself. Hit follow or subscribe to stay updated on the new episodes and leave us a review to help more women and moms discover this space. Your feedback fuels this podcast, and I'd love to hear what's working for you or what topics you want to dive into next. You can connect with me on Instagram@KatFitStrength or share this episode with a friend who is ready to embrace her strength. Remember, fitness isn't about perfection. It's about showing up for yourself and finding strength in every step of your journey. Until next time, keep moving forward one mile at a time.