48- Creatine for Women Over 30: What You Need to Know for Strength, Brain Health, and Longevity

In this episode of MilesFromHerView, host Kat dives deep into the world of creatine supplementation with expert dietitian Shelby O'Neill. They discuss the potential benefits of creatine, ideal dosage, and considerations for different individuals, with a special focus on women's health. From understanding the science behind creatine to debunking common myths, Kat and Shelby provide a comprehensive guide to help women make informed decisions about this popular supplement.

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer

00:42 Meet Your Host, Kat

01:30 Guest Introduction: Shelby O'Neill

02:45 Diving into Creatine: Misconceptions and Basics

03:45 The Science Behind Creatine

05:03 Creatine in Diet and Supplementation

10:53 Creatine for Women: Benefits and Considerations

12:48 Creatine for Different Life Stages

15:42 Creatine and Bone Health

20:12 Nutritional Foundations and Supplementation

24:51 Balancing Nutrition in a Busy Life

25:26 The Importance of Snacking

25:36 Common Pitfalls in Women's Diets

26:40 Creatine: Dosage and Best Practices

27:14 Loading Phase vs. Maintenance Dose

35:16 Creatine and Brain Health

39:47 Addressing Myths and Misconceptions

42:15 Positive Outlook on Women's Health

44:31 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Transcript

Kat: 0:00

Before we dive into today's episode, I want to remind you. That the content discussed is for informational purposes only. Today we are talking about creatine supplementation, including potential benefits. Dosage recommendations in considerations for different individuals. However, this discussion is not intended to diagnose, treat, or replace professional medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare provider before adding creatine or any supplement to your routine, especially if you're pregnant or nursing, have kidney or metabolic conditions or take medications that may be affected by supplementation. With that in mind, let's get started. Welcome to MilesFromHerView, the podcast powered by KatFit Strength, where busy women like you find practical solutions to fuel your fitness journey with authenticity and resilience. I'm Kat, your host, a mom of two active boys, a business owner, and an ultra marathon runner and a strength trainer in her forties with nearly two decades of experience. I'm here to help you cut through the noise of fads, hacks, and quick fixes. This is a space where we celebrate womanhood and motherhood. All while building strength and resilience and reconnecting with you from a place of self-compassion and worthiness. Whether you're lacing up your running shoes to go out for a run, driving your kids to practice or squeezing in a moment for yourself, I'm right here in the trenches with you. Let's dive in. Shelby O'Neill is a double board certified dietician with expertise in sports nutrition and pediatric nutrition. She holds a bachelor's degree in nutrition and dietetics from Penn State University and a master's degree in nutrition from Westchester University. Shelby began her career as a pediatric clinical dietician specializing in pediatric cardiology and neonatal intensive care. Unit. She later transitioned into sports nutrition, serving as a graduate assistant at Westchester University, where she supported the nutrition needs of over 500 student athletes. Her expertise has been recognized in the sports and human performance nutrition dietetic practice group expeditions, where she has been published twice on topics such as hydration in winter sports and multivitamin supplements. Currently Shelby is the lead sports and women's health dietician at Time to Thrive Nutrition, and an adjunct faculty member in the nutrition department at Westchester University. Shelby, I'm so excited to have you on the show today with your background in both sports nutrition and women's health, and as such, such a perfect fit for this conversation. Thanks for being here. I'm so excited to be here. I'm looking forward to chatting today. Yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a awesome topic and one I know I get asked about, and as you get asked about we're diving into all things creatine. We'll kind of start with when we hear creatine, it's associated with like bodybuilders and really bulking up and that's not what it's all about. So I think let's dive into kind of some of those misconceptions and what creatine really is and we'll keep going from there. We're gonna cover it all or most it,

Shelby: 3:11

yeah. Creatine is definitely something that, I know we were talking a little bit before about how. Something I get asked about a lot, especially from my female clients, also my male clients, but mostly my female clients and something recently I feel like that has kind of had an uptake tick of people wanting to know more about it. Mm-hmm. And I always tell all of my clients that I think knowledge is power, right? So I am happy to provide you with my knowledge on the topic and let's talk together. This is really the right fit for you. You know, sometimes. Things can get kind of overemphasized as being, you know, way more important than they actually can be for us. But let's, let's get to that knowledge part, right. So when it comes to creatine it was originally started, it was originally identified in like, I think the late 18 hundreds. But it was started to be researched in terms of athletics in about like the 1990s. And why they originally started to research it was that they noticed that when athletes were taking it, or active Indi, individuals were taking it, that it allowed them to get a better quote unquote pump in. Right? It allowed them to exercise for longer duration without getting as much fatigue, and that then led to greater gains in muscle. Right? What is interesting about creatine is that because it was starting studying, starting to be studied back in like the 1990s, is that it's one of the longest running research supplements. So in terms of safety, it's, it's fairly safe because we do have a lot of research on it. But originally that's where the research came from it. So a lot of people associate it with kind of. Exercise and maybe getting bulky or getting that pump in, like I said because that's where the original studies were in and what it was used for. I like to first kind of educate people around why it does help you to exercise longer and at higher intensities. And that's all relating to what it does in your body. And when we understand kind of what it does in your body, you can understand better, is this right for me? Does it really add bulk? Is it doing something else for me? So when you think about creatine, we actually can eat creatine. So it's in meat sources, it's in shellfish sources. I mean, like, I think you have to have like, what is it, like a pound or two of beef to have like one gram of creatine a day. So it's not in very high amounts, but it's there. So it's always been present in our body in some, in some amount. So our, our body has the processes needed to figure out what to do with it and break it down. When it comes to creatine stores in our body, though, our body stores it in our skeletal muscle, and actually in your brain a little bit like 95% in your skeletal muscle and about 5% in your brain. And the, what the research has showed us over the years is that our stores in the skeletal muscle in the brain are not a hundred percent saturated. So that means that supplementation can have an impact on increasing those levels. We'll get, like later on, we'll talk more about what that means and if that's needed, but can be impactful. Right? And so what does it do? So how it helps activity and how it helps you to exercise longer and maybe lift higher. So kind of delayed fatigue. Aspect is when you exercise, the energy systems you're using depend on the type of activity you're using. So if you're doing more aerobic, like running, then you're using an energy system that glucose. Is going to be used to make a TP, which is the preferred fuel source if you're using an anaerobic energy system, so like you're lifting, right? Then your body's not gonna have that ability to convert glucose into a TP. So that means that it's gonna burn through that a TP, which is that energy source fueling your muscles through activity. It doesn't really have a good way to get that keep coming to your muscle, so you'll fatigue earlier, essentially. So what. Happens and how creatine helps to prevent that fatigue is you lift a weight, right? You exercise your muscle, a short, high intensity burst, and your body uses a TP as an energy source for your muscles. When a TP is used at that energy source, we're getting a little sciency here, but it essentially takes away a phosphate group from there and a TP Aine, tri phosphate turns into adenine, diphosphate, a dp, and then it gets recycled out. That's no longer usable as an energy source. What your body does to recycle that and make it usable again and turn it into a TP, is it donates another phosphate to it from creatine phosphate. The more creatine we have, the more creatine phosphate that's available to our system, the faster we can get that a TP back from a DP and then the more energy we have faster to your muscles. So that's like at a molecular level what's going on. So I think a misnomer is people think creatine automatically adds on bulk. No, it just helps you exercise longer at higher intensities.

Kat: 7:40

Yeah, you were bringing back some major memories to like, I know, right? I was like, oh

Shelby: 7:45

my God. Kreb cycle, ATP ire cycle. I know, but it's like when I, when I just, I just was talking to a patient earlier about it and they were pharmacists, so I was like, I feel like you're gonna track with me on this. Like, let's talk about a TP. They're like, oh my God, I haven't thought about at TP in a while. I'm like, I know science nerd. But yeah, so I just like, I love to think about things on a molecular level, like what is my body actually doing with it? But but yeah. Yeah.

Kat: 8:05

And I wanna highlight a couple things and that I think. Generalization. So maybe people knew this, maybe people didn't know this, but it's already in your body. You're already consuming it with animal-based products. And I like how you said about the amount of it and like how, and we'll get into a little bit later, we're gonna kind of still stick on like understanding the role and then we're gonna dive into like the role of how it pertains to being a woman. But. I like how it's already there and already present.'cause I do find for myself when I have these conversations with clients that they're like, wait, I am already consuming it. Well, why do I need more? Well, and and to your point, you put it beautifully. So I'm not even gonna try and reiterate it because it was really well, well said. And I actually, I'm like, oh, this makes more sense to me

Shelby: 8:48

I'm a little bit of a creatine nerd, so I've read a bunch of the research on it'cause we'll get to it later, but it has an impact on brain health. And so personally, just for my own health history I have used it for brain health reasons. So I just have a lot of. Nerdy background on it. So it's a passion project of mine.

Kat: 9:04

Yeah, I will say, I mean, I, I take it I was a long time, I wanna say, I don't wanna say a naysayer of it when I was in college athletics, so date myself in the early two thousands. But you're young. What are you talking about? It was like, there was, it was around the time I, you know, bodybuilding started having its growth like I guess in the sixties and seventies. And Arnold Schwarzenegger was the godfather of bodybuilding. And I feel like the nineties were like the big boom of a lot of bodybuilding. And so there wasn't, there was federations out there for like clean sport and stuff like that. Yeah. So when I was a college athlete, it was really hard to find potentially clean proteins and creatines. And it was also around the time of the ephedrine or ephedrine ban and all of this type of stuff. And so our coaches were like, just don't take anything because we were a highly competitive team. We won multiple national championship titles, so it was like. We don't wanna risk what we're doing. So like I had heard of it and then, going through my adult life, I was like, do I really need this? But what the ultimate turning point for me was I was like, no, this is really useful. And as I got into my later thirties and now early forties, the one thing I noticed not only was yes, that energy benefit from it with strength training. But I had more cognitive clarity. Mm-hmm. From the get go, like, it wasn't like, it was like, whoa, like I felt like my mom brain was cleared up. Yeah. So I

Shelby: 10:31

felt there's a lot clarity. There's research about just a couple that came out about sleep depriving, sleep deprivation and creatine, and how it very much has shown a positive effect in a sleep deprivated state, which. Not a mom yet, but all the moms I know can maybe attest that you're in a sleep deprived state more often than not. So it can have benefits Absolutely. Outside of exercise which I'm sure we'll get into, but Yeah.

Kat: 10:53

Yeah. And you know, let's segue it there right now. I work with all, all women and the age range is. 30 and above, primarily in the bulk age range of 30 to 45. In that time period, you're building your family, your career is at, you know, an all time, I don't wanna say an all time high, but you're in your career, you're moving up you're also knocking on that door of perimenopause to menopause. So there's a lot of different hormonal shifts that are happening there. How, how does Creatine support women through, I mean, I just threw at like whole lifespan of transitions there. You're good, but how, how would that impact? And you know, for me, I don't, I'm gonna say as a personnel trainer and you know, I only have a nutrition certification. But I always recommend like go work with a dietician to see if creatine especially is right for you. But for someone who is pregnant, how would you, and again, and I'll just say this as a prerequisite, we're not here to diagnose or treat. Yep. We're here to inform. So anything you hear on this podcast is just information I strongly suggest, speaking with, getting in contact with she Shelby. Her information will be at the bottom or contacting your own medical professional or a registered dietician. If. You know, creatine sounds right for you. So blanket statement there, because not here to diagnose or treat.

Shelby: 12:05

So glad you put that in there. But yeah, so let's kind of look at it through the lifespan. So again, creatine has gotten so much cool, new research out there in the past couple years. There's this great great. Researcher in the creatine world. Her name is Dr. Abby Smith. Ryan, she's out of, I believe it's UNC or Duke. I'm so sorry if I'm getting this wrong. I think it's UNC. She does a ton of research in her lab related to creatine and she's on a lot of the new papers that are out there. So I like follow her on Instagram.'cause I, you know, she just is great and she has a lot of helpful information, but. A lot of great women out there doing research on creatine that helps help us, helps us put it forward. So just like you said, we are not, you know, diagnosing or treating here, but like I said, knowledge is power. So let's get the information out there and you talk to your medical provider. So when it comes to, let's start about the first stage of life pregnancy right, or fertility. When it comes to pregnancy, all of the research out there on Creatine team with pregnancy is done in animal models. So, yes, some of it shows that it could be safe. But I, here's how IH our research for my patients, right? Is in vitro. If it's in vitro, it's in a peach. It's in a Petri dish. Interesting. But I'm not gonna make a recommendation based off of that. If it's in an animal. Okay, we got a little bit more background and data, and this could be something promising, but when it comes to something like pregnancy, I'm still gonna be hesitant. Right. Human randomized control trials great. That means that we have it in humans and we know it's safe. So when you think about the creatine research, from my knowledge on it, it's mostly still in the animal model stage. It does, I think, show that it's not harmful and it may benefit, but. With caution, right? We don't have that human data. So I always just, when women ask about it in pregnancy, give them the knowledge. Say, you can ask your doctor about this, but this is not something I'm gonna feel comfortable doing with you while you're pregnant, after you're done breastfeeding and you wanna start weightlifting again. Sure. Let's talk about it. But when it comes to that pregnancy stage that's my recommendation. I mean, if you look at the animal research, it does show some positive benefits of the fetus and the mom, but there's no human, random, randomized, controlled trials. I'm not gonna feel comfortable doing that for someone. Same kind of applies for breastfeeding. If they talk to their doctor and their doctor said, that's fine, and they were on it during pregnancy, then okay, you can keep on it during breastfeeding. But if it's coming to me for the recommendation, that's usually what I choose. But again, those animal models do show some promising information. So maybe if we get some human randomized control trials, then that could be more out there as something. That we use for people when it comes to, again, like childhood adolescents, that data just isn't there as much. Although again, some of those animal and there is some actual human trials with kids doesn't really show any negative side effects that I've seen. But I always get cautious with kids. I don't like giving supplements to kids. So if you're under 18, probably not gonna do it. If you're over 18 and you're a college athlete. Let's discuss it. But I always go food first. That's my approach as a dietician. Food should be the foundation. And then if we have all of that squared away, then let's talk about creatine. Because if we're not eating right and eating enough and eating enough protein and spacing it out and meeting all our other needs, creatine isn't gonna do much, right? For our goals. So when people come to me in those life stages. Asking for creatine for this, what else is going on? So that we cannot use that when it comes to you know, active twenties, thirties, et cetera. The key part is active, right? So with creatine, when your goal is to build lean muscle, right, or retain lean muscle, the research is very clear that you want it to be paired with resistance training. And you want it to be paired with a good diet too. Right. We don't want this to be like a patch over a over you know, other good stuff not going on underneath. What's really cool about the new research and in particular when you were talking about the perimenopause, post menopause population, some really cool new research is coming out about creatine with bone mineral density and bone health in the, the menopausal population. Perimenopause, post menopause. You know, I know a lot of US health providers know bone loss occurs as we age. Especially with those hormonal shifts that go on with perimenopause, exacerbates it a lot. And what the research now shows with creatine and those older adults, those perimenopausal, post-menopausal, is that if you do two to three days a week of resistance training and you add on creatine there is very positive effects with either stopping bone loss or even stopping our bone density a little bit. It's hard to up it when you're, when you're postmenopausal, but at least stopping the loss can be very beneficial.

Kat: 17:41

Which is so huge. I'm gonna pull out some things that you said. Just to reiterate, one, I love that you spoke about 18 and under kids.'cause it is something, I have a 13-year-old and he's very big into strength training and sports and all the things. And he sees mom and dad taking creatine and he's like, well, can I do that? And I'm like, no. It's food, it's strength training, it's this. And he is like, well, why are you guys taking it? And I'm like, well, first off, we have fully matured bodies. I haven't read all the research, but the research just isn't there, and so he's like, Ugh. I'm like, I know. It sucks to have an educated mom.

Shelby: 18:15

I know, right? And the research in the adolescents with it is mostly in those with like muscular dystrophy or because it's being kind of used in research like Parkinson's or kind of trying it out with a lot of different things. So that's where it mostly is with the research with kids and with any kid, unless it's like a multivitamin or they have a low vitamin D, for example, and they need to bring that up. I don't like supplements because they're still growing. So I, in that way, like, you know, with your son, which I'm sure you did, we'd focus on food. So like meat has creatine, right? Yeah. You know, let's see how we can do that. But the kids, it's, it's very out there these days and they, they very much want it.

Kat: 18:45

Yeah, exactly. I told him, I was like, well, you know, meat has protein. It's protein and creatine protein too. Yeah. So, and he's like, really? And I said, yeah, so you're getting it in the diet. I said, and I had to tell him, I was like, you're growing. There's so many factors that are changing. I said, when your body hits, quote unquote, that steady state when you're mature mm-hmm. It's sort of easier to know what you're, what you're doing. Mm-hmm. And so he was, he obliged by it and he was like, okay, that makes sense. Mom. Mom was like, you know, I'm not trying to be like

Shelby: 19:13

only ours, but Yeah. Well, and you know what I tell a lot of kids too is a lot of the information they see out there, hear from their buddies or they see on social media, it's all met for a different decade of life. I say, yeah, right. Yeah. This is meant for us in our thirties, twenties, whatever, and not younger. Unfortunately, a lot of the information out there is not meant for younger kids yet. That's what they're seeing. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Know. Again, in the future, maybe there's research that shows it's great and that's, that's then, but as you know, a practitioner, we're research based. Right? And so you wanna do what the. What the research says. Exactly.

Kat: 19:45

Exactly. I also loved that you read that, you know, study about the bone mineral density Yeah. And loss. And I was like, this is incredible. it is one that for me and the way I train my clients is yes, we are going to, I'm like, have all the aesthetic goals you want. Mm-hmm. Brilliant. I'm all for that. But let's. For as much as you can. I understand exercise is not always, you know, I don't always love exercising, but we're not always in love with the process, but if we embrace the process and understanding, the strength training is gonna back it up. When we are, and depending on when you conclude your family, it's like we want to make sure we're fortifying our body. We want to make sure that what pregnancy and that postpartum time period, took from your body that we're getting it replenished, gaining that strength back, making sure that nutrition is there, that sleep, that stress mitigation, because the more those big, foundational blocks are there. Mm-hmm. So far the research, again, there's still more research needed. Mm-hmm. Is there that you fare a bit better through perimenopause and menopause? Again, there's an exception to everything but. Most research shows that you have less muscle loss, less bone density loss. If you are strength training, you have that good nutrient dense whole food diet and you're sleeping better and that stress mitigation is there. So I always talk to clients. I'm like, you know, and I love that you mentioned that. It's like those foundational blocks have to be there before we add on.

Shelby: 21:24

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's a supplement's only. Something I add after. Everything else. Our diet, we're meeting our calcium needs, our vitamin D, our magnesium, other things that are really important for, for bone health too, right? Mm-hmm. And what I find too, a lot of times is maybe'cause of kinda like the air they grew up in, kind of the, the diets that were popular then. But a lot of women that are nearing menopause or in menopause or post menopause really don't eat a lot of calcium rich foods.'cause a lot of them are high in dairy. And so it's a very big, bone health is a very big component that's missing. And. It can be motivating sometimes to kind of let them know about the science. Like, listen, we don't want this to get further down the road. You know, we have this bone loss occurring. Let's, let's talk about our nutrients that are important for bone health. And if you're not eating enough overall, right? Yes. Your, your body is going to start to leach calcium and phosphorus from your bones, right? If you're not eating, if you're in too big of a calorie deficit. And so we need to make sure all that's secure and all that's good. And if that's all great, then let's add on some creatine.

Kat: 22:24

Yeah. Oh yeah. That's huge. And I love, love that you brought up, you know, if you're too much in a calorie deficit, like that's so detrimental. I could, that's a whole other podcast, whole other topic.

Shelby: 22:35

We could do a whole nother thing on that. Yeah. Passion project of mine. But I could see it, and I'm sure you see it all the time, is. And it just makes me, I just wish we could get the word out there more. Like, this could be doing more harm than good for you. Right. And it's, I would tell people, especially with bone health, you're not gonna feel it right now. You're not gonna feel it when you're 30, when you're gonna feel it when you're 50 and you're 60. Yes. Yeah, yeah,

Kat: 22:56

yeah. I, yeah, it is one. I'm just like, I'm like, please just eat. And as I tell my clients when I, like I said, I do. Nutrition coaching where I'm like, let me just see what you eat. Yeah. And oftentimes I'm like, you're not eating enough. And they're like, oh, I can't eat anymore. And I'm, I'm like,'cause you've trained your body to undereat. Yeah. And when I help them articulate the signs of hunger cues or. The undereating cues of the fuzzy brain, the energy drops, the moodiness, the one that they're always surprised at is the interrupted sleep where they're waking up mm-hmm. Multiple times the night. And I said, yes, if you're waking up, especially in that 12 to 4:00 AM time period, that's like peak. I am gonna just roll it into the word of healing time where the body really recovers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that is where you don't wanna be waking up. I mean, we wanna get to bed before midnight Definitely. But like, if these are all signs that you may be under eating and when we look at like their whole, I like to see at least seven to 14 days. I'm like, put everything in there. I'm not judging. I'm here to help and see It is, they're just not eating enough because we hear cut calories, cut calories, restrict, subtract, and I'm like, no, let's add, we're gonna be adding, yep. I want to add more. You know, add a vegetable, you don't know what to do, just add a vegetable add a fruit, add a protein, animal-based or plant-based,

Shelby: 24:21

yeah. And to that knowledge too, a lot of'em just don't know how big of being in that big of an energy deficit, what that does to your, your body systems, right? Yeah. It's, and getting that knowledge out there, getting that education out there, even though maybe it's kind of what. Going against what they've been taught for a while. I love that you use those hunger cues at them. Like my one thing I always do at the first visit, or most of the time I should say, I don't wanna have my clients calling me out. Like, you didn't do that with me at the first visit, Shelby, it was the third. I have a hunger and fullness cue scale.

Kat: 24:48

Yes.

Shelby: 24:48

And they're like, well, I'm not hungry. I'm like, okay, but are we feeling faint? Do we get a little irritable? Do we have a headache? That's hunger, right? Your body is just not recognizing it as that. And you know, if I always have'em make a fist and I'm like, this is the size of your stomach at rest. Your stomach's a muscle, so you have to train it. Right. And so if you're only eating a little amount and your, your muscle that you're training is only used to opening a little amount, yeah, you're gonna get full fast. But you can train it just like any muscle to accept more food. And so that initial fullness feeling with trying to eat a little bit more food will go away. It's just takes a little bit of time and consistency.

Kat: 25:21

Exactly. That's what I tell'em. I also tell'em too, they're like, well, in the mornings I just can never eat. So I don't wind up eating until one. And I'm like, okay, here's what we're gonna do. You can break the meal into two meals. I'm like, I love a first breakfast and a second breakfast. I'm all about that. Again, mornings could be rushed, but let's really. Provide that nutrient start off. So we also don't have, on the flip side, you are now in i I color code my hunger cue to like the red zone. Think about your toddler. And if it's been a moment, think back to those tantrums. That's what your body's doing. All the alarm bells are going off. And so then you wind up grabbing something that maybe you weren't really excited about or really wanted to eat. And so now we're dealing with a lot of guilt and shame, which we wanna be excited about, what we want to eat. And I always come from the standpoint. We all know fruits and vegetables and lean proteins and healthy fats are what we need to eat. But what happens is, is. No fault of our own most often is we're in a highly pressurized society where you're on the go. Mm-hmm. And so, and being, a mom, you're an afterthought, Yeah. It just happens that way. So how do we put in things to set ourselves up for success it's, and it's hard. I always tell'em, I'm like, you know, it's simple, but that doesn't mean easy. It can be hard to start thinking about yourself in that way, or getting little bits of nourishment. And when we've been taught, don't snack, it ruins meals. Well, actually, I love snacking. I love

Shelby: 26:43

a snack. And you know, I, I wish, and I'm glad that we have this platform to do this. I wanna get the message out so much. So many women come to me and they try to eat as little as possible throughout the day.

Kat: 26:52

Yes.

Shelby: 26:53

And that is their goal. And then inevitably they fail because their body needs food. Mm-hmm. And then it sends them these very strong hunger cues at night, and they feel out of control around food, and then they beat themselves up for that. And really, you're just setting yourself up for failure throughout the day. I. Let's shift more of our energy and take during the day. That's when you're busy. That's when you're doing things. Yeah. And sometimes this is when creatine can come more popular because it's like, oh, well it's easier just to take a supplement than it can be to kind of work on some of these structural things.'cause your life is so busy. Yes. You're asked to do so much. And so just like you said a lot with the moms, it's, let's put ourselves first a little bit. What can we do once this week to put ourselves first so that you're getting the nourishment you need so that creatine can be. The icing on the cake and not like a bandaid over a bullet hole is the analogy I like to use. I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So IF firmly am very on board with everything that you are on board with as well, with, with kind of teaching women how to refuel their body when they were taught the improper way through societal norms or et cetera, et cetera. Right.

Kat: 27:50

Yeah. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. So with creatine, let's dive into the dosage amount. Yeah. When to take it. Is there best practices or kind of if someone's you know what, this sounds like it's right for me, and It's that one more thing I have to do, how can I fit it into my crazy lifestyle? If I also find that women are don't wanna do it wrong, and I get, with working out well, is there a best time to work out during the day? no. Whatever's easiest for you. Which is work out. Yeah. There's no science behind when to work out to get them best, the best benefit of it. Just work out. Yeah.

Shelby: 28:25

No, absolutely. So when it comes to creatine. It depends. There's two different ways you could do it. So there's something, once again, we've decided that your diet is good and everything else, and we're adding this on top. So there is a loading phase you can do, and then there's just kind of taking one serving at a time and slowly working up those stores. So again, it's going back to those, those stores in your body. What we wanna do is. Generally are Korea stores. What the research says is they're like maybe 60 to 70% full just from diet stuff. So if you're a vegan or vegetarian, it's gonna be lower. They respond better because again, it's found in those meat-based sources. And so the loading phase gets up to that a hundred percent. So goes from 70% stores full in your body, from normal diet to closer to a hundred. Again, we don't know the exact amount. Not everyone's a creatine responder either. That's a fun fact niche. Not everyone responds to it. So it's hard to tell if you're a responder but we know that not everyone responds to it. So, the loading phase is usually people do it a little bit differently, but usually it's 20 grams a day for like four to five days. That being broken off into five gram doses four different times throughout the day. So like five grams of breakfast in the morning, early, some time around lunchtime, afternoon, and then dinner. You do that for four or five days, and then you go to a maintenance dose of three to five grams a day. That is the way to get your stores up faster. Now with that can come some of those side effects that you hear about on the internet bloating, water, weight, et cetera. A lot of that I would say is a little bit more anecdotal than seen in the research. But. When we do see it anecdotally from people, meaning like people telling us about it versus it being in the research, it's it's more with the loading phase. So I always tell people if they're worried about water weight gain a couple pounds, bloating don't do a loading phase. So if you don't do a loading phase, it's just literally starting three to five grams a day. And continuing on with that that's how I have most people do it because I don't work unless you're using it for like traumatic brain injury prevention, which we can talk about how it can help with brain health. I. Or you have an athlete that's really highly competitive that has an event coming up, there's really no need to get your stores up in a week versus three weeks. So I just try to do normally just the three to five gram dose with individuals so that we don't really have any GI side effects, and we eventually get up to full stores in the body.

Kat: 30:38

Yeah. Like when I first started taking it, I did the kind of like the buildup, like yeah. And I did notice, and it wasn't that bad. It felt like literally my cycle was about to start, you know? It wasn't bringing on my cycle. I wanna do, you know, be very clear about that. It just was like bloating. This is a familiar blow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But, but yeah, that was, that was the one thing. And then, you know, I just do it for me and, and we can go into, is there a best time or not for me? Mm-hmm. I just do, it dropped in my black, I drink my coffee black. Every morning I'm typically a morning workout so for me, I just, morning is when I take it, and that works for me. I'm not gonna fuss over the little percentages. Or if there's a vast percentage and you're like, no, no, actually you're not getting the best results, I will, I'll gladly. So

Shelby: 31:26

I'm the same way. So when it comes to creatine, also, we, we wanna make sure that it's creatine monohydrate, right? Mm-hmm. I think we would probably get to that later anyways. Yeah. But so we wanna make sure it's the creatine monohydrate that's the most well researched and well tolerated, creatine. There is other ones out there, it's also not that expensive compared to other supplements. So with the creatine, I also just do it in my morning coffee. So what the research shows is that. Yes, if you want like the 1% different benefit, you can take it within like an hour pre to post workout with 15 grams of a simple carbohydrate that's going to best optimize absorption. What the research overall shows is you just need to get it consistently every day. If that's breakfast that you remember to do it, that's great. That's why I tell people just what's one time a day that you're going to remember to do it.'cause consistency is key. So really what I tell clients, it does not matter if you're, again, an elite athlete. That's training and time matters. Okay? Let's consider that cut off. Otherwise, just anytime a day that works best for you and you remember. I just say not at night because, you know, sometimes it can have a little bit of burst of energy, not burst of energy, but it helps give you that mental clarity and acuity. So if you wanna sleep, well, maybe not at night, but but yeah, otherwise the same thing, just a time of day that you can take it consistently. I do tell people it does not mix well in water. So I always do it. Oh yeah. So I always do it in a hot beverage or a food. Okay. So if you put it in water it just tastes a little, like, it isn't my experience. A little like crystally almost like you're kind of drinking, like it's kind of chewing a little bit. So I always put it in a hot, like liquid. It dissolves. So a food so.

Kat: 32:57

That's good to know. Yeah, because it was just easy. I have my coffee every morning. Yeah, you remember it, you do it in there. Yeah. it's perfect that's good to know that it's just consistent. Yeah. Consistency and getting in an every day. Now I did see one of my clients brought it up to me and I don't know if you've seen this, creatine is being paired with multiple things. Ah, yes. And so, you know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that going back to like I say that best practices and just, you know, sometimes it's like what I feel is too many things paired together. It's just not getting what you need. It's just. Marketing and making money. And that frustrates

Shelby: 33:38

me on so many levels. So I am always a single ingredient supplement person besides like a multivitamin when I can. Right. And not, and not everyone needs a multivitamin, I don't think either. Right. Is if your diet is, is sound, you got everything in there. But yeah, I don't pair creatine with anything. The, the, the thing, you'll see it infrequently that if they love it and they don't wanna stop it, that's fine. It's like a pre-workout. Mm-hmm. But. No, it's, I haven't seen the science on it actually being absorbed better when paired with other things. Maybe I'm missing something and it is, but no I only like to use it by itself. And from the research that I've seen it, it's very well absorbed by itself. I agree. I, the more things you add into something one, the less likely that we know what is causing the positive or negative effect. And two, is that inhibiting absorption of the creatine. You know, we don't know, so, and I always try to avoid those supplement stacks, like I say, meaning like multiple supplements in one product if I, if I can with clients. Yeah.

Kat: 34:33

Yeah. I believe that too.

Shelby: 34:35

And, and too with supplements, you know, supplements are regulated so differently than food too. Mm-hmm. So it's, I just always am cautious with them.

Kat: 34:44

And then are there specific types of creatine monohydrate that are better? like you said, I mean, supplements are so regulated differently and it is. Largely an unregulated mm-hmm. Field. Mm-hmm. So, and, and that's where, I was explaining to I stick with what is it? National Sports Federation. NSF Oh, NSF Sports Certified. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I stick with those. I don't think I'm gonna. I'm a runner. I compete. I am not a lead. I'm just out there

Shelby: 35:16

for a

Kat: 35:16

good time.

Shelby: 35:17

So yeah, no, I always recommend third party tested supplements, even if you're not being drug tested, because I just feel safer with them. So, and third party testing is gonna be NSF Sport. USP verification or like Informed Sport or Choice are usually the ones that I look for. GMP is is a third party ification, good manufacturing practices, but I find that their standards for GMP are lower than when it comes to something like A USP or A or NSF sport or an informed choice. But yeah, so Thorn I use there. I personally use their creat team Monohydrate. They're a third party tested. Momentous is third party tested. There's a couple out there now that are third party tested. The creatine monohydrates, but I typically will go with either Thorn or momentous if I'm taking it or recommending it to someone. But it doesn't mean there aren't other brands out there, third party tested, but those, the ones that I know of, that I use, like I use Thorne. I love Thorne. Yeah. I find it has a pretty good price point too. It does. It really does. And I just, I think that they make a, they make a good quality product and it's third party tested, so I feel safe.

Kat: 36:13

Yeah. I love all their supplements, you know, and I'm not affiliated, I'm not just, you know, just saying no. Yeah. But, and the best part is they come right to my door, so it makes it easy. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think what else haven't we covered here? I think it would be interesting to kind of go a little bit into that brain health because, oh yeah. One of the things that's coming out, and especially for in that perimenopause menopause area is brain health, and I obviously spoke to, when I took it, I noticed I. More cognitive clarity. Mm-hmm. I felt literally like I was plugged back in for the first time since having kids. Mm-hmm. So I was like, this is amazing. I didn't realize, I personally had not realized that benefit to 18 when I started it. So, yeah.

Shelby: 36:57

Yeah. And, and it all comes back to how, what it does to that a TP molecule, that very scientific thing we were chatting about in the beginning, right? So a TP is the fuel source for your body cells, right? And so we know that again, it comes back to where the creatine stored so stored in your muscles your skeletal muscle, and then in your brain. So the research doesn't show it's as good with the doses are what's interesting and not quite, not adequately confirmed. I guess there's some research that shows that maybe higher doses are needed for it to have a, a better effect on the brain than just the five grams a day. That's still kind of being debated, but what we know in the research is that one, we saw that research on the men increased mentals acuity in sleep deprived states. And two, it's used a lot with people with TDIs or concussions. And so some of the research shows that when you have it on board before or you take it after, it has a better you have a better likelihood of decreased symptoms and recovery. And so it's, and again, I, it all comes back to that energetics of how it powers the a TP in your brain. So again, same with your muscles. If we're thinking about it theoretically, right. Then when that. Brain cell uses that a TP and it recycles it out. And it's a DP, that creatine, that phospho creatine can donate a creatine, a phosphate, and phosphorylate, that's a TP again. So more energy, faster to those brain cells is one of the theories as to why it could be so effective for brain health. But research is still. Coming out about that, but it's very promising. And, and there was a good review by the International Society of Sports Nutrition from thousand 17, I think it is on creatine. I like the reviews'cause they're very wide ranging, but they also give like lovely little bullet points at the end that's like, here's the main from this 20 pages here is the main point. So I love that. And they show that they're doing a lot of research now. Can't say it's been successful, I don't think. Yeah. But with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and different muscular dystrophy, like I said cool stuff that maybe in the future research is gonna show that it can actually have an impact for,

Kat: 38:52

Now I'm gonna throw a question at you. Can't remember the study, but there was a study and one study singular does not mean it's like. Yeah, and all be all, but it, it talked about how, in particular, for women, and it showed a little, it talked a little bit more towards the men too, that after the age of 60, creatine isn't beneficial. Now I. I would, I'm just curious on your thoughts on that.'cause it was like I said, it was one study, so I kind of take that and I didn't push it further.'cause most of my clients, are in that like 35, 45 range. And

Shelby: 39:26

so Yeah. That's so interesting. I've, I've actually never seen that. Okay. So yeah, I would, I would actually, and, but I love to learn new things, so I would love to read that study and, and kind of figure it out and, and dice it apart. Like, was it in vitro, was it animal or what kind of a study population was? Do they already have like osteoporosis or something? I had never heard that. That's interesting. I'm trying to think in my brain like what the mechanism might be for that, but I don't know. So to answer the question, I have not heard it, so I'm not, I'm not sure. But in my experience, it has helped preserve some bone mass for individuals that I know I work with that get DEXAs so that I can like actually see their, their bone density. So again, not necessarily increase it, but prevent it from from dropping when paired with proper diet and resistance training.

Kat: 40:09

Okay.

Shelby: 40:10

Yeah.

Kat: 40:10

Yeah. I'll have to, I'll have to track down that study. So I just kind of like took it with a grain of salt and I was like, well, I'm not there yet.

Shelby: 40:16

And I'm, it's always good to keep your finger on the pulse. Right. And, and that's the, the good thing, I guess, good and bad about research. It's always changing. So, you know, just because we know one thing to be true now, it, we might actually find out that it's not Right. Right. Prete does have some more longitudinal, so like 40, 30 year studies on it. But that's why I like science and I like keeping my pulse on it is it can change and then we adapt, but but it's good to keep your pulse on it and find interesting stuff like that.'cause hey, maybe it doesn't work after 60, but not that I have seen at least yet.

Kat: 40:46

Let's see here. I mean, we covered a lot. We covered, like,

Shelby: 40:49

I can talk, I

Kat: 40:50

don't know if you notice, but also not, I don't have a problem talking, which is great. I've seen a lot of buzz around and that's why I was the expert in it. I need, I need someone who knows all about it. And, and we can really decode it because there are a lot of apprehensions in taking it because of the myth of getting too bulky. You know, it's only for bodybuilders or I'm not an athlete. And I, I always tell my clients, I'm like, you are an athlete. Mm-hmm. You know, yes, you may not be competing for a team or an athletic competition, but you are an athlete for life. You are trying to get your body in as best peak condition so that you are thriving and not just surviving to get to that quote unquote finish line. It's like we want to feel good, so if there are things that can enhance after we're doing those foundational blocks, then this will help. What would you say to someone who's like, oh, I just don't know, like, kind of on the fence with it, you know? Yeah.

Shelby: 41:43

I, I always kind of go back to like. First, educate them on like, here's how it works in your body, and then what are our goals, right? Mm-hmm. Maybe your goal isn't to put on lean mass or isn't to preserve bone density or for your brain health. Maybe their goal is something else, but if your goal is one of those things, then let's do some education about how it can help those things and talk about safety around supplements and what we can do in our diet First. See if that helps. If it doesn't, then we add this on. So it's always, like I say with them, I'm sure with you too, it's like a partnership with my client. Mm-hmm. I have the education in the background, I'm gonna let you know, but you're the expert on you is what I always like to say. And so I usually just start with what their goals are, the education around it. And so if an individual came to me now and asked it that's what I would do. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Knowledge is power, like I said.

Kat: 42:30

A hundred percent. Yeah. Big proponent of, clients are always in the driver's seat and I'm here to help. Guide them to their outcomes. I mean,

Shelby: 42:38

we live the dream, right? Yeah. We get to do our jobs are what we are very interested in and our nerdy little hobbies that we get to turn into a career. So I, I will just enjoy what I do and I think you do too. And I think that translates for people. And so the more that I can, I just genuinely like to help people. And so the more knowledge I know about something, the more I can help other people. And I think that in the end that just. Helps more people. Right. So, and I love that you have a platform that kind of helps to get messages out there too, that matters. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah.

Kat: 43:10

It's a passion project, but it's also something that came outta frustration of just so many nuanced things being screamed into this wide void. The, the research is getting better. This still has a long way to go in which a lot of the research is still on small populations of, of subsets of women. I tell clients today you are in one of the best times to be alive and being a woman. Mm-hmm. And going through prenatal, postpartum, perimenopause, menopause. Because the amount of research that is coming out a long term study, 10 to 20 years is coming out now, which is huge. It's huge. That longitudinal data is huge. Yeah. And, and the coolest part for me is. It's all positive. Mm-hmm. That hope isn't lost. Yeah. When I was going through, you know, I was pregnant with my son the first time with my first son, it was you've ruined your body. Yeah. And, and I'm like, that's so not the case. And then this fear around perimenopause and menopause It means I can still be in an action ready body to continue running, to strength train, to still see what I want and still thrive and climb the mountains and whatnot. Yeah, it's, it's huge. So,

Shelby: 44:18

and, and I, and I think, you know, and you, I'm not in that life stage of perimenopause yet, but I think, and take this with a grain of salt as a younger individual, but that it was almost viewed as inevitable. This is just going to happen. Yeah. This decline is going to happen. And now we know that there's actually things we can do to mitigate that and to improve that quality of life. And just like you said, it's so positive. It's not just inevitable anymore. We can help ourselves and there's new science that shows that doesn't have to be this way.

Kat: 44:44

Yes, exactly. And that's, I, that's what I tell my clients. I kind of love in the Asian country, the mindsets are, it's a new spring, it's a new beginning. And I'm like, and that's what they call, they don't have menopause as the term, and I don't know the word I, if I knew what I would butcher it. Yeah, no, that's, that's, but, and it's a new coming of age. How amazing is that? And so that's why I tell clients, I'm like, don't look at it as a try to think, yes, you could do all the strength training, the stress mitigation, the mobility and the cardio. There are still going to be symptoms. There's going to be hormonal changes. We can't control that. But what, with the studies that I've been reading, that it does help mitigate on the other side that if you are creating those foundational habits and strengthening them now, no pun intended to keep strengthening, you're going to have a better outcome on the other side.

Shelby: 45:31

Yeah. So, and the hardest part is, when there's no immediate reward for it. Mm-hmm. Convincing people and showing them that this matters, I promise. And hopefully with the right messages out and research showing that it does, that can help to further and further kind of get that out there for people.

Kat: 45:44

This was awesome. If anyone has questions, you can message the podcast. Shelby's information will be in the show notes. Time to Thrive has. Virtual sessions as well. So you don't have to be local. We're in southeastern Pennsylvania, she's in Phoenixville, but if you're a local, you can do in person or they have the ability to do virtual, which is amazing, so you can reach more people. Thank you so much for coming on. I know I learned more about creatine and definitely gotta, jog back to the days of all the anatomy

Shelby: 46:13

yeah, I expect a full memorization of the glycolysis cycle by the time we meet next. No, it's been absolutely lovely. So thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for coming on.

Kat: 46:23

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