MilesFromHerView
MilesFromHerView
21- Deep Dive in Pelvic Health with Dr. Victoria Clement
Guest:
Dr. Victoria Clement - Physical Therapist specializing in Pelvic Floor Health, Orthopedics, Perinatal Rehab, and Birth Doula
Host:
Kat, NASM-certified personal trainer and nutritionist, founder of KatFit Strength.
Episode Overview:
In today’s episode, Kat welcomes Dr. Victoria Clement, a physical therapist and birth doula, to discuss all things related to pelvic floor health, especially for women during the perinatal and postpartum stages. Together, they dive into how strength training and pelvic floor therapy can empower women at all stages of life—from young athletes to postpartum recovery and beyond. Dr. Clement shares valuable insights on the common issues women face, including pelvic pain, diastasis recti, and pelvic organ prolapse, while shedding light on myths surrounding pelvic floor therapy, even for C-section mamas.
Topics Covered:
- The importance of pelvic floor therapy throughout different life stages
- Strength training benefits during pregnancy and postpartum
- Addressing common issues like pelvic organ prolapse, diastasis recti, and leaking
- The role of strength and mobility in long-term health and resilience
- Why pelvic floor therapy matters even after a C-section
- How investing in your body during pregnancy leads to smoother recovery
Key Takeaways:
1. Pelvic Floor Therapy Myths: Dr. Clement debunks the myth that pelvic floor health only matters for vaginal births, highlighting the importance of care for C-section mamas as well.
2. Postpartum Challenges: Kat and Dr. Clement explore the many challenges women face postpartum, from pelvic heaviness to leaking, and how these can be addressed with targeted therapy and training.
3. Empowering Women Beyond “Snapback Culture”: The episode encourages women to move beyond the pressure of "bouncing back" post-baby and to focus on building strength and confidence through sustainable practices.
4. Strength Training’s Role in Recovery: Investing in strength training and pelvic floor health during pregnancy not only improves labor but also aids in a smoother recovery postpartum.
5. The Role of Hormones: They touch on how the perimenopausal stage affects pelvic floor health and how preparation in earlier life stages can lead to better outcomes.
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Resources Mentioned:
- Follow Dr. Victoria Clement on https://www.instagram.com/restorethefloor.doc/
- Learn more about Dr. Victoria Clement https://www.restorethefloorpt.com/
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Welcome to miles from her view, the podcast, where we dive deep into the unfiltered reality of fitness, strength, training, and nutrition within womanhood and motherhood. I am your host Kat founder of Kat strength. I'm a career strength and conditioning coach, entrepreneur, lifelong athlete, and a mom of two. In each episode, we explore the unique challenges and triumphs faced by women navigating the complexities of life from juggling family and career to prioritizing self care. We dissect the systems and the habits that shape our health and wellness. Join us for real stories, authentic advice, and genuine conversations as we empower each other to embrace our journeys and find strength in vulnerability. Today we have a special guest, Dr. Victoria Clement. She's a physical therapist specializing in pelvic floor health, orthopedics, and perinatal rehab. She's also a birth doula with a deep passion for functional fi fitness. Dr. Clement empowers her clients to embrace strength training, not just for athletic performance, but to improve their everyday activities. And I'm so excited to hear her incredible insights on building strength and resilience throughout the different stage life stages. So welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Definitely. I'm, I'm excited for you to bring and shed some light on pelvic floor therapy and that transition from, you know, just pelvic floor through all the stages, especially pertaining to birth and for women who are looking to get into strength training, have always strength trained or that lifelong athlete. I think there's so much information out there that can really empower a woman to. Not just stay active, but to go beyond that snapback mentality that we often see. Yep. I'm so excited to talk about it. I love talking about this information because I know everyone, I believe everyone needs to know this stuff. So I'm happy to say whatever you want to know. Exactly. And I think, you know, I'm here to listen and also learn like, you know, being a personal trainer, it's one thing that I'm clued in. I have a decent handle, but I'm always learning so much more. And I'm the first one to tell my clients like, Hey, when did that start happening? And sometimes they tell me, well, it started after baby number, whatever. And their child could be, you know, close to college. And I'm like, okay, it could be tied back, but that doesn't mean your body's broken. It's just when you go through pregnancy to delivery to life, you know, there's so much that the body changes and that can be overlooked and it's no fun. Fault. I stress this with my clients. It's not a fault to you because life is so busy, right? You are focused on raising a child, you know, working in the home, outside of the home, A combination of both. There's just a lot that happens and it's natural that you get pushed to the back burner. Um, and then I know for myself, when my kids were younger, um, and babies, they were, the eldest is 13 and the youngest is 10 mm-Hmm. pelvic floor therapy wasn't something really talked about. Um, Diasis recti was just barely breaking, you know, onto the scene. It was like kind of new, which is shocking. Cause I'm like, I'm so young. My kids are still young. Um, so that's one thing I know once I learned of these things, especially going through my second pregnancy and getting, um, a restarting strength training and all of that and running, it was. So different, you know, the recoveries between both pregnancies. It was amazing. And I felt more empowered with that knowledge. So that's why I'm like, I'm like, share your knowledge, you know, so let's dive in. I would say. Let's start with that woman who, um, who let's take that like early postpartum woman. You know, I often kind of, I don't laugh at that six weeks appointment, but that just like undefined moment of the six to eight week appointment where it's like, you're cleared for exercise. So like really define, like, what does that mean? And what in your words of what you've seen and. What would be like the best 1st steps what I use? That's a great question because that it's so misleading. So, so misleading and I hear from my patients. Like, I went to have intercourse with whoever and it didn't work out. It was painful. I'm like, I was cleared to do this or they want to go exercise and they felt the heaviness in their their pelvis or the leaking. That's a common 1. that's common pregnancy or no pregnancy. People leak with their impact activities, lifting heavy and. That's a lot of what we see. Those are the main things I would say. There's pelvic and back pain, there's leaking, sometimes bowel issues, not as much as the leaking, and then the pelvic heaviness. So that is equated to pelvic organ prolapse, which don't let Dr. Google scare you. It's the worst of it on Google is like when you go to type it in, you see the worst of it. And Honestly, nine and a half times out of 10. It's a mild one that can be resolved and you won't feel the symptoms as much or at all. Um, and then the, like, you mentioned the diastasis recti. So, people struggle to engage their core, all the. pieces of their core. So like, it's not just one muscle. It's a lot of muscles playing a role in here. It's your breath playing a role in it. Coordination. So those are, I would say those are the main things we see in general and a lot postpartum as well. Yeah, 100%. I always encourage my my clients. Um, where it's I always encourage my clients and stress that it's not just because you had a baby that these things are tied to, um, and, you know, young. Girls who are teen athletes or college athletes can experience leaking as well. Um, men can also experience leaking and they also have a pelvic floor. So it's not a, just because I had a baby, therefore these, this is my, my reality now, um, that it can be, uh, corrected with minimal to invasive therapy. treatments and it does take some work. And I always stress that modifiKatFitions and slowing down things, especially in the beginning is going to lead to a stronger, more resilient body, especially as we get closer to the perimenopausal change. And I try not to skip. I'm like, Oh, great. This is next. I'm going to always be changing. And, you know, one step forward, two steps back, but it's let's build this foundation here. So when our body changes with the hormones and our pelvic floor naturally changes due to that, we have. You know, we're walking into that with more control, dare I say, um, and more confidence to be able to continue doing the things that we love. Um, because I just, for me, I'm, I'm a lifelong athlete and it's like, you know, You, you, there's so much life post having kids that you can still do. And I thought watching the Olympics was such a huge testament to all the women who have gone through motherhood and are still at the top of their respective game, um, and also advoKatFiting for women's health in that realm, you know, from pelvic floor all the way up, which is. It's just massive. I was like, Oh my God, it's happening. It's finally here. I will say this, the people that we see postpartum that either worked with us or a trainer or somebody during their pregnancy, world of a difference postpartum in the recovery, it's easier, smoother, not as much to do like rehab wise. So if you invest in yourself, like your time to put, you put in the time. During your pregnancy, it pays dividends later. Like you have a better pregnancy. One, you have a smoother labor and then the postpartum recovery is so much smoother. It's not easy. It's never easy, but it's a lot smoother than it could be. Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up because it is huge. And that is something as a trainer and working with women who are pregnant, I'm I don't want to say always, but I'm checking in. I'm like, you know, I know generally when things could crop up and I'm going to ask them politely without being intrusive, but, you know, if I can get them to a pelvic floor therapist and be like, no, you shouldn't be in pain. It's not just because you're 2nd trimester, it's your 3rd child that you should have, you know. Round ligament pain or these type of things. No, you deserve to go through pregnancy feeling as comfortable and pain free as possible. And a pain is a bit of a signal in the body that like, Hey, something's a little off. Doesn't mean it's very traumatically off. It's just a little off. And with a little TLC, we can bridge that gap and keep moving forward. Um, I had a client who Who thankfully she was just like, I don't know if this is normal. And I'm like, Hey, I'm so happy you asked. And I was able to get her connected. And she was just like, it was a world of difference. She's like, I never knew this existed. And she's like, I feel foolish. I said, don't feel foolish. It is totally fine. This is my profession. I'm supposed to help you or no. Um, and it is huge. I would love to hear. So one of the things that I hear, and I am a C section mama, um, is. Well, I don't need to worry about my pelvic floor because I had a C section, like, I won't have issues, you know, and I know that's not true, but I'd love to hear, you know, just kind of your experience with that, or maybe things that you have seen, um, from C section mamas. I It's definitely worth looking into the pelvic floor too, because it's all one system. Your abs, your diaphragm, your pelvic floor, and like that whole corset around. I think of it like a soda can. It's all one system. So when you have a lot taking up inventory in your belly for, like, you have a baby taking up inventory, it puts a lot of pressure on the pelvic floor. Um, especially like if you were pushing, During your labor, and then it resulted in a C section, your pelvic floor is not out of the woods. Even if you just had a scheduled C section, your body changed. Your hips and pelvis changed to accommodate that for that baby or babies that are in there. So, with those changes in the pelvis and in your hips, the pelvic floor can get tight. And, um, like, that, that, um, really can postpartum. It can make a difference down the line because like that pelvic floor loves to also compensate for other areas like your back and your hip. Your lower core. So like that lower core, that's exactly where that c section scar is. That pelvic floor is right on the other side of that bone. So it can tighten up and compensate for that scar tissue. Yeah. Oh, you're so right. I mean, I know, um, I'm going to say my first C section was textbook C section. It was unplanned, um, and they were like, we just can't leave labor law any longer. Like we need to sadly intervene. They tried. I mean, it was, it was like 48 hours. They're like, we need to like, he's not moving down, you know, he was a big baby. Um, kind of grateful. Um, he was my, my 10 pounder who was two weeks late and he was almost two foot long. So I was like, thank you. Bye. And, um, yeah, he, he, he came out in the size of a four month old. So, um, yes. So my second one, unfortunately I did have a complex pregnancy. I'd complete placenta previa with, um, leaking placenta and, um, I forget the, um, wound up having like, I'm going to say minor accreta. I forget the medical term. Um, so there was like, uh, adhesions. It wasn't very invasive. Um, so they had to do was extremely emergency, um, C section. And so there was more incisions internally. And, um, one of the things that I was grateful for was, um, Because I couldn't work out. I was on bed rest the whole pregnancy, but I was grateful for the knowledge of just breathing and like alleviating like pressure off the pelvic floor. And then in that first couple of weeks when I was trying to get up to the NICU and I was, I don't stop. I'm like, yep, I got this. Let's keep going. You know, um, you know, it was like, Taking that time to be like, okay, let me focus on breathing work on that. The core column, the, like, you know, the soda can from diaphragm to get the fascia moving things slowly moving. And, um, so, and then as I ease into, and I, I know it was not, I should have eased in slower. I kind of jumped back into a little bit faster than I should have paid for it. And then I had to slow down, but like the deep core, um, Um, coordination with the muscles on the inside is, is a lot where, you know, for me, strength training, look different running, look different where it wasn't. Okay. Resume where you just left off. It was focused more on that breathing focus on that posture. Um, and that I know can be really tough for clients to hear when. It's just such a high pressure time of get that body back, get that strength. And I fully respect like. You want to feel really, really good. And as I tell my clients, I'm like, just because you can doesn't always mean you should. And it doesn't mean the workouts will be easy. I can make them pretty challenging. But we're focusing on that deep core connection, feeling that the, um, I always love when clients are like, I didn't know I had those muscles in my back. And I'm like, cause they're huge. You need them to support your core and your pelvis. Cause I would explain it as like, the pelvis is like a rudder on a ship and you know, it's not going to remain in. Neutral alignment the whole time. We want it to be able to move side to side front back, but when it gets pulled in that front and oftentimes postpartum, because by nature of pregnancy were more weighted on the front side, your center mass is pulled out, things get pushed and pulled. And we want to just give back to the body to get it to your posture to where, you know, it was. Prior to ever having a child where I, I can't remember what that felt like, but you know, it's like, that is what we want. So then you can be able to live in a functional body. It's worth the weight and it's worth the patience to do the little things 1st, because that's your foundation for everything else. Oh yeah. 100%. Um, let's, I'm going to say ship gears. And for that woman who might be listening is like, Oh my goodness. I have never seen a pelvic floor therapist. I didn't even like, I hear about pelvic floor and I just giggle and which is, you know, Oh, What I do and, but I'm having some of these things where I've been having maybe lower back pain. Um, is it ever too late for someone to get help? No, never. It's never too late. I, um, back when I was working for a company and I would see Medicare patients who are older people, I saw a woman, several women, but one in particular that I think about a lot, she was like 78 years old leaking. She were. Depends all day long and she's like, will I ever get rid of these? I'm like, we can try, we can see what, see what we can do. So we did a lot of pelvic floor work. We did the core work. We worked on her mid back and that woman got down to one panty liner a day in the seventies and she was so grateful. She was glad she tried it. She was skeptical. But if you know which places to treat and to work based on the person's individual needs, it can happen. You're never too late. I love that. And I think that is something that I feel like needs to keep being screamed. From the hilltops is it's never too late. And I know, especially from my industry, sometimes that's perpetuated. Oh, you waited too long or that's too late. And it's like, no, the body is so resilient and you can build that strength. You can build these, um, connections and, you know, I'm going to say these muscle reflexes of connections to allow for the body to. Function better, just so you can feel better because I'm sure she was like, Oh my goodness. I don't have to, I don't have to wear this. Like I'm sure it was a massive boost of confidence, you know, so yeah, that's your point. Like I've seen elderly women in their eighties and nineties deadlifting on social media. I'm like, it's never too late to start. You just need someone that's willing to help you and guide you in the right direction. Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. And that's, that's what I absolutely love. I like, I think that is such a good, like, that's one of the things I love on social media is when I see these women who are older than I am. And you know, I'm in my early forties now. And I hear sometimes from people like, you need to slow down. I can't believe you're still doing these things. And I'm like, slow down. Why? I'm like, I feel good. Like what purpose is there of slowing down? Unless you're running yourself into the ground. And doing too much exercising as long as you can, it's going to improve your quality of life. Like, I've seen as a PT in general, just people that stayed active in one way or another. They, they're happier, they're more mobile. Like they bounced, they like recovered better from their surgeries and things that injuries that they had. So like, it's, it's so worth it investing the time into the exercise piece. And the nutrition, but that's another thing. Yeah, no. And you're exactly right. And it's like, and that's where I tell my clients it's like, just because, and I know some of it is a bit of like societal norms and stuff like that for women. Like you hit the forties, it's all downhill. You had a baby, it's all downhill. Like, I'm like, why are we so obsessed with this downhill thing? I'm like, it is not all downhill. Like it's. I always say tell the people I'm like, yeah, there are some mornings I wake up and I feel like, oh, a little stiff, a little like whatever. But like, I feel more energy and like, I don't know. I feel, I don't want to say better, but like I was an athlete in college, but I'm like, I have just as much, if not more energy now in my forties and I am so much busier. And I also value my downtime and my sleep. Like it's my job. I'm like, no, I'm sorry. I'm sleeping. I'm like my phone's on airplane mode after 9. 00 PM. You cannot get ahold of me. I'm like, I'm going to bed. So a lot of people are making their thirties and forties, their healthy era. Like it's. If they're turning it and flipping it like I'm stronger, healthier, like they're putting their attention on their health versus the 20s. Like the 20s were just like a wash. And, um, now people are taking care of themselves and it's really showing. Which is huge and I, it makes me happy and I hope it's like more wholesome because it's like, you need this, like you, not to be cliche, you only have one body to live in, like, and there's so much within your control to make these years on this earth, like, good and moving forward, not just constantly moving forward, but like, Doing the things you want and challenging yourself in the way you want. And, you know, and I also, again, drawing from the Olympics, seeing that change of what an athlete is. Um, I remember growing up and it was like, athletes were done by the time they were like 22, 23. It was rare to see an athlete in their late twenties. And a lot of that was, you know, sports. Science wasn't, isn't where it is today. And the nutrition piece, especially for women is not where it is today. Um, strength training. I remember like in college in the early 2000s, strength training was just like brand new for women in it. And I remember lifting in the weight room and the male teams were like, why are you guys in here? And I'm like, Cause we're athletes. And, um, so we'd be throwing around weight and gaining strength and they would be like confused by it. I'm like, Hey, I, I love it. Like this is what an athlete is. Um, and so I was an athlete too. And it's crazy how like in my teenage years and twenties and starting out as a physical therapist, I was running myself from the ground. I was stressed. It actually like segues into the origin of my business. And like finding pelvic floor because I was I was under eating. I was over training. I thought I had to run to lose weight. I want to be skinny. I don't want to be bulky all the wrong things all of myths in my head like for me, and I was got to a point in my old job where I was seeing multiple people an hour and totally exhausted and depression and gaining weight. I was seeing these clients that had like pelvic floor issues and orthopedic issues. I didn't have the mental capacity and the energy to give them everything. And that, that is how I started my business. Actually. Like I wanted to give people more, like I, I realized myself that I had pelvic floor issues and I was in my twenties. I was leaking. I had sciatic pain. I had, um, pain with sex. That was huge. And. I didn't know I could fix that, and I was actually complaining to one of my PT friends, she said, you should go see a pelvic floor PT, and like, like, that makes sense, like, it did cross my mind, because we didn't learn about in school, at least in my program, very in depth, so I went there, it changed my life. I got rid of like 90 percent of the issues I had. The other part was like a back issue and wanted to offer that to people. And again, I didn't have the time or the energy. So that's where I branched off and started my business, Restore Physical Therapy, because I wanted to give people the space and the time to go over like what's happening, what's going on in your life, what's the whole story. All of the details matter. Whether it's like, the nutrition, the sleep, the, the history, like, what has your body been through? Like, we need time to go through all of that. And also, like, I always found it interesting that, um, I've never had kids. So I'm like, what goes on in that room? And then why is my patient Having X, Y, and Z issues. Like, I want to know what's going on. So I decided to become a birth doula so I could see for myself what exactly goes on in that birth center hospital. And it really made sense to me. Like it brought it all together. And so that that's how, like, I'm like, we got to get people better. Like we got to change things. We got to get them prepared during their pregnancy. Even pre pregnancy, like, we got to get you you well and get the discrepancies and like deficiencies balanced out. Um, he collaborate with other professionals, like personal trainers, because. You, you all keep everyone accountable and you see them often, um, constantly changing the program. And as for other clinic, like, clinicians out there to, like, chiropractors are important. Like, it takes a village of everyone. So, um. With that said, like, a lot of our practice focuses on the preventative and, um, preparing people and making that recovery a lot better if there is on social media, like, a lot about, like, bouncing back, but that's so misleading. So misleading, like, your, your life. Going to look different, but not not necessarily in a bad way. Like, some people come out doing physical therapy postpartum working with a trainer and they feel stronger than they ever did. Like, it just looks different than it did in your 20s and you have to manage your time a little differently. Like, you had mentioned earlier, um, There's no time in the day and that's okay. Like if you're not sleeping, if you're not fueling your body, like it's not going to want to exercise and that's just how life is sometimes and you just have to roll with it, you do what you can. Um, but as Kat and I are out here, like we're here to support everybody, um, through whatever it is and find ways that work for your life. Yeah, and I love that and I full heartedly agree. Like, it is huge. And 1 thing I want to reiterate that I love that you say, and to me, this is my opinion, but a practitioner who values the whole person to understand that I feel and I know, and I have had experience with practitioners who do that, the quality of care. Increases because, and it's not just understanding like the whole body. It's like, what is your whole story? Cause everybody has a story through their body and through their life. And I feel in, this is how I also work with my clients. Like the more, that's how you can create a better plan for them on their terms. Um, because no matter what season of life you are in, we are in such a fast paced life that it is. Very easy to forget about yourself or be distracted and ignore. I mean, I'm in the business and it's like, there are times where I'm like, I know what I need to do. And I will flat out ignore or make excuses and then be like, you know, cause the body whispers before it screams. And it's like, why is my body screaming at me? And that little voice is like, well, pills, we tried to tell you. Four days earlier, but you bulldoze through. And it's like, Oh, yeah, listen to those voices. Exactly. And I think, you know, and for women, it is getting better all around, but it is tough to put the time into ourselves. And it's not always that we don't want to, I do see that it's like where to find the time. And so that's where I always love hearing from. Other people who are in my network who provide services that compliment and really enhance. Not only just my clients, like for anybody who I come in contact with, that it is going to be on their terms with professionally backed research, backed support to keep them moving forward. And it's just, it's huge. And. Everybody's journey looks so different. And that's where I have that love hate relationship with social media is like, you see, like, follow me on my journey through my pregnancy to postpartum. And it's like, cool. That's awesome. And go, you do it. I think that can be great, but it can also be really, you know, Tough for someone whose journey looks different or like, I can speak personally. I struggled hard for her to get back to me after both pregnancies and their respective. And it wasn't just because my body couldn't handle it or I was dealing a lot. It was, there was a lot. Emotionally to get back to my body. There was a lot just schedule wise. And the one thing is even though, you know, after I went for my first, I was in college coaching, so I didn't have my business at the time. And after I went to my second, I then had my business. I mean, it wasn't like, oh, I'm a trainer now. So naturally it's. easy for him to get back to me. It was a lot of the psychological switch that it is worth and not selfish of me to take this time. Um, it is, this time is paramount and it isn't just so I can show my kids how to live healthy. It's because I deserve to put this time into me to live healthy and strong in my life. On this earth. And, you know, yes, aesthetically it does. Yes, it is the ego boost. I'm not going to deny the aesthetic, but more importantly, it just gave back to me more and it wasn't from the purpose. And I try to like. Break this free is your sole purpose isn't just to serve your kids when you become a mom and that's why you should get healthy. It's you deserve to have you and feel good for you, not for your partner or for your kids solely. That's not why we're doing it. It's for you. It's like, you know, when you buy you maybe that piece of clothing or whatever, that's for you or, you know, that a guilty pleasure TV show. That's just for you. That's why. You know, some of your workouts or that time for you pouring into your health should be. Um, but, yeah, it's I agree. I agree. I love that. Yeah, um, so let's see here. Um, what are I'm trying to think what else can we cover? Um, I think it is important to touch on social media a little bit. So. It can be tricky. It can be tricky because there's a lot of people out there. Um, there are a lot of people out there that have great information that have the experience, have the knowledge and just want to share it, but then there are some people that are like, I just want to go viral and this thing looks cool. So I'm going to talk about it and it's so hard to navigate. Um, who do I listen to? What, what, and you and I had a conversation earlier about, like, you know, when people say never do this or only do that, like, that's problematic. Like, those are words that you should just be mindful of. Like when you're looking at it, like I never, I never tell people you can never do this again, or you should only do this. Yeah. I would a full heartily agree to that. And it's, um, and it's so easy. I get sucked into some stuff. I'm like, wait, what am I doing it right? And I'm like, and it's like, no, you know, it's like you can easily get lost. And some of social media is for that likes and the virality of it. And, but the biggest red flags that I've seen is this is the or the one secret or the five best, you know, exercises for diastasis recti. Honestly, it could be a hundred different exercises and it goes back to what's right for you, your body and where you're at. I mean, that's. I think one of the cool things about exercise and, you know, in the world of physical therapy is that it's unique to you and there are commonalities, but it's really hard to showcase on a 10 second reel or a, you know, whatever, a nine by 16 square of like, You know, breaking down some complex topics. Um, what would you say for someone who comes across an account and they're like, Oh, this sounds really good. Like, things to look for to make sure or even, you know, I know. We're in southeastern Pennsylvania. So they may follow you on social media, but they may not be able to utilize your service because of distance. Um, but for someone who's like, oh, I really want to find a pelvic floor therapist, what would be things to kind of investigate into to make sure it's credible research? They are someone who, um, you know, is a professional and knows what they're doing. I think simply a green flag would be someone that collaborates with other professionals. So, like, in the, like, with I'll say both ways. So, like, personal trainers that are like, um, these are modifiKatFitions. Like, I'm trained in this and I, I feel confident in this, but the minute there's a dysfunction of any kind. You send a PT. On the flip side, physical therapists, they're willing to refer out, like, if they're not big on the fitness part or exercise programming, like, they get to a certain level and they, like, the person's a CrossFitter and they want them to go back to the CrossFit, but you send to the trainer that can help them get back to CrossFit, you know what I mean? So, like, seeing people interacting with other people in the community and not being like the, I know everything. Is a green flag. Um, As far as like credentialing and stuff, like you want to find a pelvic floor physical therapist or occupational therapist, um, for pelvic floor therapy. Those are the people that are trained in rehab. I know there are people that call themselves pelvic floor therapists and aren't. So, like, they have, like, the chair in the office or the injections, like, that's totally different as a time. And like, the injections and the mediKatFitions have a time and a place, but it gets confusing out there when people see, like, pelvic floor therapist. But to its core is rehab providers, which are and and then. Yeah, like I said, people that are willing to give you the best, like we, I don't know everything about everything. So like, if I don't know, I'm willing to refer to someone that does better. Like I want you to have the best. So that, that is what I look for. Um, I don't love when people, um, just think that they can do it all. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh yeah. And that, that's tough. It's like, That gets, yeah, I'm very, I feel you on that. That is huge to refer out and provide and know that, you know, like better terms, you shouldn't be expected to know it all because it's a lot of information. But yeah, and I will say, definitely looking at the. Um, certifiKatFitions are like the OT like you said,'cause that's a big one. Mm-Hmm. I see a lot, especially with personal trainers, um, where there isn't that certifiKatFition with prenatal or postpartum. Mm-Hmm. And that understanding where, you know, it does take that understanding and it doesn't have to be just a woman going through it. And I would argue like you have to know a little bit more.'cause there was a lot when I went through and got certified. After having a child that I was like, I didn't know that. Like, yeah, it's really interesting. Um, just because you went through something doesn't mean you are the expert on all of it. Um, there are things like you're the expert on your experience. Um, and that's where, and I will kind of throw this out there that like they, I've seen some really good male trainers who are pre and postnatal trainers. And I'm like, man, they're great. I would go see them. So like being that, especially in that pregnancy thing that like, it isn't just isolated to only finding a female practitioner. Um, and that there can be, you know, I don't know any of the top of my head, but like great male pelvic floor therapist, if you feel comfortable with that, just, you know, so, um, but yeah, I know that is, that is huge. There's red flags and really looking is to. Who and the credit accreditation of them is is huge. And 1 of the things I absolutely love is seeing those providers that work with other providers because it's it's just you're going to that individual is going to have such a better quality of care. And I love that when I 1st started. I actually started as an independent contractor out of a physical therapy office. It was so cool to, you know, bridge the gap from physical therapy to someone getting back in and then also be able to be like, Hey, you know what? You need to go see this person because I'm there. And so there was acupuncture, massage therapy, nutrition, physical therapy, OT. chiropractic care and then personal training all under one roof. Um, and it was nice to be able to connect right there and just see how you can provide such a comprehensive care for the individual and see them get to where they want to go. I dare I say faster, but happier without this kind of like frustration there. Um, so that's why I love when I have clients who are seeing, you know, many people on my network and I love getting those text messages or emails from them because I'm like, cool. I can put together a better plan for them to keep them moving forward versus playing like, and I hate to say it like this, but like guesswork, like, okay, I think this will work, but I don't have the full story here. I missing pieces of the puzzle and it's not coming from, like, I'm just pulling random things out. It's. Based off of these case studies that I have read, this should work. But when I have someone like yourself, who's working with a client, I can be like, cool, that is that, or those cues are working for that client. I'm going to carry it over here. So they see it in strength training and we can correlate it to everyday life. And they're more empowered versus really being scared in their body or scared to live. You know, actionably in their body. So I do that regularly with trainers. We have we have an email chain with the client as well. So there's a lot of times where they'll send them to me for like, um, just a general evaluation of what's going on and what they need to focus on. And then I tag the patient and the trainer in there. I'm like, this is what I found ABCD. These are a couple, um. I recommend integrating into it, but like, do what, like, add what you want to do too. So like, you can have the best of both worlds here. Yeah. And I love that. It's, it's huge. I feel like that is like going to be more of the future. I hope. I hope so. Like, I just, it is, it is huge. Like I've gotten to a point with myself where I'm like, if, you know, I understand doctors and HIPAA with differences, but like other practitioners where I call it like the in between before you're the doctor is like, if they can't communiKatFite, I'm like, okay. Or if they don't want to listen to, not that I'm going to tell my life story, but understanding, you know, the pain and what happened preceded and post, like, it's not going to be a good relationship there. I'm not going to get the best quality of care from them. So it's like, nope, I'm not seeing you. So, um, yeah. Um, What else? What is kind of one thing, um, come do like a random, what is one thing that you're like, um, I want to say your superpower, but one thing like you absolutely love, it doesn't have to be related to pelvic floor that you're like, Oh my goodness, like my clients or my patients would never suspect this up. People don't know this, but I compete in strongman competitions. So those people that, um, pull trucks and lift heavy stones and kegs and all that crazy. I do that. I'm crazy like that. So, um, it's actually like, like really fun. If you get the techniques right and someone teaches it to you and you're working on your strength training, you're working on your deficits in the middle, it, anyone can do it. But I was telling Kat earlier that I have a competition coming up. Not this weekend, but the weekend after. So, um, that is one thing about me that people might not know. I love it. I love, I always find every person has a secret like challenge thing or like, and I, and I love it. And I think, you know, especially it was strong. Like, you know, You're going to have to have a pretty awesome working like pelvic floor because that's a lot of load on the body. Oh yeah, oh yeah. You gotta breathe well, your coordination has to be in line. You gotta have that pelvic floor lengthened and strengthened. Like it can't be too tight. That's one misconception out there. It's like people do kegels, kegels, kegels. Well if your tissues are really tight, You're tightening a tight muscle. Like you have to learn how to relax and release it first. And then you have a better contraction for things like picking up a stone or picking up your baby, picking up your 20 pound baby. Like that, that's all it takes. Like if the pelvic floor is. It's weak and tight. So um, yeah, just like balancing it out, having good breathing with it and the coordination of the breathing and the pelvic floor. It's everything. All right. A hundred percent. And I'm going to jump back to it. I'm glad you brought up the tight pelvic floor. Um, so you mentioned earlier, and I forgot to jump back to that is, can you go into, are there signs or symptoms, um, that someone may experience that could, um, you know, B of a tight pelvic floor. They can have tight hips, um, trouble with tampons, trouble with intercourse, um, constipation, trouble emptying the bladder. So, like, if you have to stand up and sit down real quick, that that can be tightness. Um, another 1 is this 1 is. A little less common, but like, if you're you're wiping and wiping and wiping and the tissue is not getting cleaner, that's a sign of a tight pelvic floor in the back. Um, and and the fact, like, if you're leaking, like, usually that's a tight pelvic floor. That's not coordinating well with the rest of the body. And do you find just. Thinking a little bit deeper. Do you find this is predominantly something that happens to just use women in this context, like postpartum or do you see it more before someone has kids or is it doesn't discriminate, you know, along the way? It does not discriminate. I, like I said, I was in my twenties. I haven't had kids and I had the tight pelvic floor whenever I got to the therapist. I, um, I was really tight and it was a little bit uncomfortable at first, but like she made me feel really comfortable and safe in that situation. We're able to relax the pelvic floor and that, that helped like really rebalanced my body and I was able to strength train again. Like it was crazy how much that type of floor played a role in my entire body. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. So let's wrap up, you know, I'm super, we'll have to have you back. Cause there's so much to talk about. We can do a part two and part whatever. Yeah. And it's, and it's huge. And I think there's a lot out there. I know. I mean, not just books. Selfishly, but I'm like, I wanna learn more because the more you know, the more I can listen for certain things for clients to connect to the dots. But thank you so much, Dr. Of course, pout for coming and joining us. Um, where can people find you? Um, online where we, we are www.restorativefloorpt.com. I restore the floor. Doc on, um, Instagram and take talk and then we have offices and Manny and brew mall media. So do you need care and your local? We're happy to help. We do free consultations as well. So if you're not sure, we'll help you through it or direct you in the place that you need to go. Awesome. And all that will be in the show notes. And so you have that and you can reach out, definitely follow her. She puts out some great content. I follow her. It's awesome. So thank you so much for having us on and yeah, we'll look to future episodes with you. Thank you for joining me on another episode of miles from her view. Your support means the world to me, and I truly appreciate you being a part of our community. If you found today's episode helpful and want to stay informed about all things, catfish strength, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter. You'll receive exclusive insights, tips, and updates straight to your inbox to sign up, simply visit the show notes or the subscription link to discover more about catfish strength programs and how you can ignite your fitness journey. Head over to our website at www Cat Fit there. You'll find everything you need to invigorate your path to strength and resilience. Once again, thank you for tuning in and I can't wait to connect with you in our upcoming episodes. Take care and remember, act to take the next step.